[electropop]

Quote:

I think I can relate to what electropop is saying. The AKG K702, for example, offers what I feel is superior instrument separation compared to the HD650. If I studied music, and was inclined to transcribe music, say to tab out the lead guitar track from a metal song, the K702 allows me to hear each guitar note clearer, allowing a more accurate transcription. This just a rough example, I am sure the HD650 is fine at revealing enough detail to allow accurate guitar transcriptions. But maybe, just maybe, the K702 makes Dragonforce less painful to jot down.

 
Hah, yeah maybe
 
But still to Mochan and Plonter. I don't have golden ears or musical education. The notes just sound MUCH MORE distinct from each other. My girlfriend can pick out notes (tab) much better than I. I think this is the way I should've said it. Final rephrase: In relation to each other, the notes sound more distinct. If you pick out a certain note in midst of a complex melody, you're sure which it is.
 
Maybe if you tried listening to Zappa's Waka/Jawaka or Grand Wazoo and with different headphones, you'd understand... It'd be easy to point out when listening, but hard to discribe!
 
I'll make a thread concerning this soon. I want ratification for my views
 
And no, I don't think the HD650s are the worst playing bass notes, just unengaging as a whole compared to many other phones.

 

[Mochan]

If we're talking distinct notes then what you are talking about actually is Separation. The K70x is excellent for this, but the best I've heard for this is the UM3X.

 

[electropop]

Not the distinction or separation of instruments or notes per se, but the distinction between the "pitches" of the notes. I cannot make up a better word for it, because it's accurate in finnish. Instrument separation is excellent on the SRH840 or T1, for instance, but not the distinction between the pitches of the notes. Hmm, I'll contact you guys when I might visit your countries

 

[Ypoknons]

Yep, with most decent headphones I can pick out of the rhythm of most (pop/rock) songs but pitch is much harder. I was talking to the guy at the amp store the other day, I suppose this is one of layering people sometimes talk about.... 

 

[Mochan]

I hope one day I "get" this. It's a fascinating subject but something I can't quite appreciate just yet.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Long past thread I know, but Mochan, you could all be hearing the exact same thing and describing it differently. No offense meant here, but I would be shocked (although it is still possible), that somebody who isn't a seriously trained musician will have such acute hearing ability. Please note that I said it is still possible so if Electropop is just one of the few humans blessed with such an ability you indeed have my apology. I still feel you could all hear the exact level of detail and distinctiveness in the musical notes and yet describe it differently. Sound is far to subjective to describe with any accuracy, we all make do with "subjective" reporting of the experience.

 

[GrowthValue]

As far as I like HD650 so much, I have to agree that HD650's bass is a little light. Not as tight as some other higher end HPs, such as LCD2.

 

[Baxide]

It all depends on the headamp. My HD650 can rattle in its frame when subjected to good deep bass. The HD650 needs a headamp that can manage 10Vrms on the output. Many headamps don't make the grade which results in less excursion drive for bass.

 

[razor5cl]

In defense of the HD650 I have found when listening to bass heavy music such as trentemøller on closed bass heavy cans (HFI-780 / Denon D2000) the beat is the forefront of the music, when you listen to the same on a more detailed can (Sony SA5000 etc) the detail and melody of the music is more apparent. Being the huge electronica/techno fan I am I've moved from those bass heavy headphones to the more detailed one and fine I not only enjoy my music a lot more, I'm listening to it in more detail and in turn this music appreciation has turned me onto other genres.

Do you think that for electro stuff like house, more detailed, opened phones are better than the various closed bass centric phones.

 

[MrTechAgent]

No.
Once you dig the extension its hard to forget those cans , just spectacular

 

[razor5cl]

Since then I have bought a DT990 Pro. Its pretty awesome, and having a bass heavy phone really does make a difference.

 

[ipm]

For me the bass is fine. my friend who does recording engineering for a living listened to his reference/calibration music on my HD650 and found them a bit lacking in the lows and somewhat empty starting around 9000Hz. i looked the frequency response graph at headroom and it seemed to match my friends opinion. in contrast, i don't detect a bass deficiency at all. then again, i am listening to commercially obtained CD's not his reference tracks from his studio.for me the HD 650 is a great headphone for any music that i have. my jazz tracks sound very nice in the lows for example. So do my electronic dance tracks and my country music as well. they are particularity good for male vocals like those heard in the Barer of Seville.

 

[bblegram]

Hi .. 
I have a HD 650 with AMP WOOaudio WA3 (OTL AMP). 
This Combo raised the level of quality of my HD 650! With this amp the sound improved a lot, especially in the quality of BASS. The Bass became more defined and larger extent. 
The Stage was amazing! I love this combo! 
I also have an LCD-2, the sound is better and more refined. However, my WA3 + HD 650 has a sound, sometimes, especially in Jazz Music.

 

[hauntingtheholy]

Edited
 
Quote:

  It all depends on the headamp. My HD650 can rattle in its frame when subjected to good deep bass. The HD650 needs a headamp that can manage 10Vrms on the output. Many headamps don't make the grade which results in less excursion drive for bass.

 
I have heard the 650 rattle in its frame at my friends house when plugged into a home receiver.  It had awesome bass suitable for club music.  I just got the Magni 2 Uber and it does NOT have the bass I wanted. Something I don't fully understand, though is that the headphone can get loud enough with this amp to deafen me.  In fact, I stupidly hurt my ear while cranking it too loud to hear if that would help the bass or not. The volume was at only 10'Oclock.  If I turned it up all the way, it would literally blow my eardrums out and I'd be Deaf forever.  :-O  
 
I am VERY interested in this magic number of 10Vrms output.  Below is copied specs for the Magni 2 Uber.  So the max output power is measured as 320mw for 300Ohms.  How does this correlate/translate to your "10Vrms" number?  Will I get significantly more bass out of the Asgard 2 or Valhalla 2?  Do tubes = more bass?  I do love WARM sound....
 
Another thing I don't understand is that the Asgard is twice the physical size of the magni 2U with power consumption of 30 Watts, instead of 5 like the Magni 2U below, however it only adds the mW per channel to 380mW - The same 60mW increase that the Magni 2U has over the Magni 2 (4W and 260mw @ 300Ohm)  Intuitively, this seems very strange.  Is there any meaning that I'm missing?
 
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 320mW RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 160mW RMS per channel

THD: Less than 0.002%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS

IMD: Less than 0.003%, CCIF

SNR: Greater than 104db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS

Crosstalk: -70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz

Output Impedance: Less than 0.2 ohms

Gain: 1.5 (3db) or 6 (14db), selectable via rear switch
Preamp Output: Yes, controlled by volume pot and switched via headphone jack
Topology: Fully discrete FET/bipolar, constant feedback through audio band, complementary VAS drive, Class AB, DC coupled throughout

Protection: Standard failsafe DC power input and muting relay

Power Supply: “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/- 16V rails, with over 6,000uf filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 5W

Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”

Weight: 1 lb

 

 

[bblegram]

   
I have heard the 650 rattle in its frame at my friends house when plugged into a home receiver.  It had awesome bass suitable for club music.  I just got the Magni 2 Uber and it does NOT have the bass I wanted. Something I don't fully understand, though is that the headphone can get loud enough with this amp to deafen me.  In fact, I stupidly hurt my ear while cranking it too loud to hear if that would help the bass or not. The volume was at only 10'Oclock.  If I turned it up all the way, it would literally blow my eardrums out and I'd be Deaf forever.  :-O  
 
I am VERY interested in this magic number of 10Vrms output.  Below is copied specs for the Magni 2 Uber.  So the max output power is measured as 320mw for 300Ohms.  How does this correlate/translate to your "10Vrms" number?  Will I get significantly more bass out of the Asgard 2 or Valhalla 2?  Do tubes = more bass?  I do love WARM sound....
 
Another thing I don't understand is that the Asgard is twice the physical size of the magni 2U with power consumption of 30 Watts, instead of 5 like the Magni 2U below, however it only adds the mW per channel to 380mW - The same 60mW increase that the Magni 2U has over the Magni 2 (4W and 260mw @ 300Ohm)  Intuitively, this seems very strange.  Is there any meaning that I'm missing?
 
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 320mW RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 160mW RMS per channel

THD: Less than 0.002%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS

IMD: Less than 0.003%, CCIF

SNR: Greater than 104db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS

Crosstalk: -70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz

Output Impedance: Less than 0.2 ohms

Gain: 1.5 (3db) or 6 (14db), selectable via rear switch
Preamp Output: Yes, controlled by volume pot and switched via headphone jack
Topology: Fully discrete FET/bipolar, constant feedback through audio band, complementary VAS drive, Class AB, DC coupled throughout

Protection: Standard failsafe DC power input and muting relay

Power Supply: “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/- 16V rails, with over 6,000uf filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 5W

Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”

Weight: 1 lb

 

Hello!
About your question on impedance, power ... Voltage (Vrms), I believe the link below will help you!
 
http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
 
On the specification of the Amp you mentioned, it generates approximately 10Vrm (9,8Vrms) with 300Ohms with 320 mW of power. More than enough to touch Sennheiser HD650.
I have a Senn hd650. In my opinion, they play wonderfully better with tubes! My suggestion (with a reasonable price) are WooAudio WA3 or Crack OTL Headphone.
 
 
.....