HD600 with Cardas cable vs Sony MDR-R10
Apr 5, 2002 at 5:20 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 110

msjjr

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I was wondering if someone could do a comparison of the Senn HD600 with the new Cardas replacement cable to the big Sonys?
I'd really like to know how close the Senns can get to the Sonys.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 8:34 AM Post #2 of 110

Vertigo-1

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HAH! I'm sorry my friend, but you can make a garden hose out of pure solid gold straight from the U.S. treasury for those HD600s and they'll never get within even 9000 miles of the R10s. You can try all you want with whatever exotic cabling you wish. The HD-600s will never, ever be in the same league as the R10s, and certainly can never even get close. Yes, not even close. Not even in a bang for the buck manner. You have to shoot for the R10s if you want the R10s.

I say this from a 4 month experience with the HD600s + Red Clou and R10s side by side. There was no way the HD600s could keep up with the R10s back then, and I very highly doubt a new cable is going to make the HD600s suddenly able to compete with the R10s now.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 9:08 AM Post #3 of 110

rawhit

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Vert
is there any phone that u think comes close to the mighty R-10 in sound ?
rolleyes.gif
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 9:34 AM Post #4 of 110

Vertigo-1

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Well I dunno. Somebody did once say not even the Orpheus sounds like the R10. And that the R10 did certain things better than the Orpheus.
rolleyes.gif
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 9:54 AM Post #5 of 110

CRESCENDOPOWER

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I think the Sony V-6s do some things better than the HD-600s. If you want Sony buy the Sony V-6s. As long as it says Sony it should sound just like the R-10s. HA! HA! It's all a matter of opinion, and it's up to you to listen, and decide for yourself.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 10:18 AM Post #7 of 110
First of all, msjjr, I'm not sure how often you come around here, but, even if only for a little while, you've probably figured out that Vertigo-1 is very quick to tell us how the R10s smoke, blow away, and slaughter everything else. But even he initially felt the much less expensive Sony MDR-CD3000s were solidly competitive with the R10s. And he also recently said:

Quote:

....after using speakers strictly for two weeks, headphones sound like *** to me.


So I'm not quite sure what to think.

Let me first say I haven't heard the R10s.

At first, I wasn't going to respond to your post except to say that you might be asking about two totally different sounding headphones, and so may be asking some to compare apples to oranges. Again, I can't say for sure because I haven't heard the R10s. But, for example, I'd have a hard time giving an answer about my Etymotic ER-4S earphones versus my Sennheiser HD-600s in general. If you asked me which was more "sweet" to my ears, I'd answer the HD-600s. If you asked which was more resolving, I'd say the Etymotics. But the broad question about which comes close to which, in general, would, again, be very difficult to answer (for me at least), because I can't say which is ahead of the other, in general, given that they're so different.

Also keep in mind that there are only a couple/few people that own Sony MDR-R10s around here. And the answer from them will probably be that nothing compares at all to those headphones.

You said the following:

Quote:

I'd really like to know how close the Senns can get to the Sonys.


Being more specific might get you more useful answers. The very broad nature of your question (which I think is an interesting question) will likely only get you general "team" responses. For example, those who generally defend the HD-600s vigorously will sell you a prettier picture of the HD-600s than Vertigo or kelly might likely do.

As it's currently stated, it might be sort of like asking, "How close do the Linn Klimax Solo amplifiers come to the Cary V-12 monoblocks?" When someone else might ask, "How close do the Cary V-12 monoblocks come to the Linn Klimax Solos?" Someone willing to spend the kind of money needed to buy either pair of these amps will likely make a clear choice of one over the other, and so stand by that choice. Ask about which one has deeper, more controlled bass, and the answers you receive from both sides might be more consistent. Ask which one has a smoother presentation, and you might receive more consistent answers.

Again, I haven't heard the Sony R10s. But I have heard a lot of headphones by now, and many headphone amps, not to mention a lot of hi-fi in general. To my ears, the HD-600s are some of the finest hi-fi transducers in the world; and so far, there are only a couple of setups I've heard that I'd choose over my current Max/HD-600 combination for my general headphone listening pleasure -- one is the Orpheus, and the other is the BlockHead/HD-600 combination. The Stax Omega 2 is nice, but I honestly can't say I'd take it over even my Max/HD-600 combination, as I found it quite analytical when I listened to it, but I'd like to give it another shot, and this time in my rig. I have heard the Sony MDR-CD3000s, and, to my ears they were shrill in the highs, and had what sounded to me like a hollow cavity resonance that put them out of the running for me -- and I tried them with most of the top amps HeadRoom brought along on their road show last year. Would MDR-CD3000 owners/fans disagree with me? You bet. But this is a pair of headphones that Vertigo-1 felt initially competitive with his R10s. And now even his R10 headphones sound like "***" to him compared to his Triangle bookshelf speakers (which, in the last photo I saw of them, didn't appear ideally set up).

By the way, the Cardas cable, in my experience (with a prototype -- my production model should be here any day) takes the HD-600s to an even higher level. So if you find you like the way the HD-600s sound, I feel very confident that you'll like them even more with the Cardas cable.

As CRESCENDOPOWER mentioned, you'll have to listen for yourself to get the only real answer (your answer). These two products you're asking about exist at vastly different ends of the price continuum.

Again, the broad question will be one likely riddled with the "team" answers. And, in a way, you just got one from me.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 10:47 AM Post #8 of 110

Vertigo-1

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Quote:

But even he initially felt the much less expensive Sony MDR-CD3000s were solidly competitive with the R10s.

But this is a pair of headphones that Vertigo-1 felt initially competitive with his R10s.


Before we get a little carried away with these statements, I think I better clarify a bit.
wink.gif


If you check my absolute, most recent statement I made about the CD3000s, and if I remember correctly, it was to put them down pretty hard compared to the R10s, and it was when markl first got his R10s. Whatever I felt initially is, at this point, quite null I think, given it's been over 6 months since I last owned the CD3000s, and that my equipment has changed considerably, particularly with the addition of what some would call a "decent source". I also acquired a decent amp and some decent interconnects to boot.

Bottom line, the CD3000s do NOT compete with the R10s. They don't even sound the same. Their sound is like apples and oranges. Or maybe I should say like a $5 lunch plate compared to a $30 Italian meal.

I stand fully behind my statements about speakers however. There is no reduplicating the large, expansive natural soundstage that speakers have, and least of all is it possible from a closed headphone like the R10s. To clarify, I made that statement as a direct result of having experienced nothing but speakers for two straight weeks, and suddenly returning to headphones gave me a crash course in just what exactly that crossfeed switch is for. And it is in that sense that headphones sound like baloney.

That's not to say headphones don't have their place...I still use mines, just more on a "when I absolutely MUST keep quiet" basis rather than on a purely listening pleasure basis, like I used to. Particularly due to ear problems I can't help but hold off on headphones, much as I wish and want to return to them for just pleasure listening. I am currently slowly just trying to live with my tinnitus now and return to headphone land, and to slowly reimmerse myself back into that unnatural soundstage.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 2:02 PM Post #9 of 110

msjjr

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I'm really surprised at how a simple and genuine request could ignite such acrimony.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 2:08 PM Post #11 of 110
Quote:

Originally posted by msjjr
I'm really surprised at how a simple and genuine request could ignite such acrimony.


Certainly a genuine request, but, as you can see, it wasn't necessarily simple.
wink.gif
This is a forum, where little is simple.

And my post was admittedly more in response to Vertigo-1's post than yours.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 2:22 PM Post #12 of 110

markl

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I owned the HD600 and Blue Clou cable and of course I now have the R10, so I can help answer your question.

The cable is going to wring out the last 10% of performance in the HD600. It's not going to turn it into the r10, sorry.

I, too have heard lots of headphones with great sources and amps. I'm a little older than Vertigo and have a bit more hi-fi listening experience under my belt (this is not a sideways slam on Vertigo). There was no question in my mind that the R10s were superior to the CD3000 and HD600 the instant I first fired them up. The R10 are far far ahead of both CD3000 and HD600 in virtually any area you'd care to name. I'm not the only one who thinks so.

I really really don't want to do this, but I'm getting the feeling I should bring my R10s to the Headroom tour when it hits Bay Area so other Head-Fiers can hear them and maybe resolve any lingering doubts as to their sound quality. I'm very protective of my R10s and reluctant to risk bringing them to the meet. We'll see.

markl
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 2:39 PM Post #13 of 110
Quote:

Originally posted by markl
I really really don't want to do this, but I'm getting the feeling I should bring my R10s to the Headroom tour when it hits Bay Area so other Head-Fiers can hear them and maybe resolve any lingering doubts as to their sound quality.


That would be very interesting.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 2:49 PM Post #14 of 110

pigmode

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Vert, who is that in your avatar?

Re: Headphones.

I've heard both the 600/red and the R10. IMO, they can't be compared because they are completely different animals. I like both, and wish I could have both.

Quote:

The Stax Omega 2 is nice, but I honestly can't say I'd take it over even my Max/HD-600 combination, as I found it quite analytical when I listened to it, but I'd like to give it another shot, and this time in my rig.


I'm becoming very intrigued with the idea of getting a Stax. Everyone says they excell with classical music which is exactly what I want.
 
Apr 5, 2002 at 3:04 PM Post #15 of 110

DanG

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I found the imaging on the Stax Omega II absolutely superb.

By the way, Jude, if the Headroom set-up in Detroit was the same as the HE01 World of Headphones exhibit, the Stax was getting a "dirty" signal compared to the Blockhead on display there. The Blockhead was getting a direct balanced feed from the Krell, while all the other amps, using single-ended inputs, were getting a signal split by an older Headroom Max which was acting as a preamp for all of the other amps on display there. I think that may have caused them to sound still great, but not as good as they could receiving a direct feed.

Regarding Vert, I have one word... er... model number: Sony MDR-A44.
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