MacDEF
Headphone Hussy (will wear anything if it sounds good)
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2001
- Posts
- 6,761
- Likes
- 13
Not only do Jude and I have practically the same system, we have practically the same ears!
HD600...why do they frustrate me so?
- Thread starter Beagle
- Start date
Hirsch
Why is there a chaplain standing over his wallet?
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2001
- Posts
- 7,826
- Likes
- 71
At the end of the 19th, beginning of the 20th century there was a school of thinking in psychology called Structuralism. To oversimplify greatly, they attempted to formulate an objective vocabulary to describe subjective experience...that is, a way to describe a sensory experience using language in such a way that another person could replicate the experience. They failed.
In many ways, audio reviewing has become a new sort of Structuralism. We hear a piece of equipment, and try to find a set of words that will convey to others our experience with that equipment. However, even at best, we can only approximate. We are likely to do best with people we know, who have listened to the same setups as we have, and heard the language we use to describe a particular sound that they have experience personally.
If vertigo says a piece of equipment sounds veiled, does he mean the same thing that I would, using the same words? I doubt it. That doesn't mean that one of us is wrong, it simply means that we really don't have a vocabulary for communicating all but the barest outlines of our sensory experiences. Fortunately, that is usually enough.
I've heard veiling with the HD-600, which has always been a good sign that something was wrong upstream. Fix the problem, and it went away. IMO that is one of the HD-600's strengths, as well as a weakness. It doesn't lie to you, and it is not very forgiving of any weakness ahead of it in the audio chain.
In many ways, audio reviewing has become a new sort of Structuralism. We hear a piece of equipment, and try to find a set of words that will convey to others our experience with that equipment. However, even at best, we can only approximate. We are likely to do best with people we know, who have listened to the same setups as we have, and heard the language we use to describe a particular sound that they have experience personally.
If vertigo says a piece of equipment sounds veiled, does he mean the same thing that I would, using the same words? I doubt it. That doesn't mean that one of us is wrong, it simply means that we really don't have a vocabulary for communicating all but the barest outlines of our sensory experiences. Fortunately, that is usually enough.
I've heard veiling with the HD-600, which has always been a good sign that something was wrong upstream. Fix the problem, and it went away. IMO that is one of the HD-600's strengths, as well as a weakness. It doesn't lie to you, and it is not very forgiving of any weakness ahead of it in the audio chain.
Quote:
Alright, next time I rebuy some HD-600s, I'm getting with it the mandatory Linn Sondek CD12 and Holmes Powell DCT-2. I guess the HD-600s was trying to tell me my Sony DVP-9000ES and Audio Valve RKV Mark II weren't good enough to take away that warm, darkish midrange and rolled off highs I heard compared to the Grado HP-1s, Grado 325s, and Sony R10s.
I remember that poll about how much of a bang for the buck the HD-600s are. Given the required equipment they MUST be associated with to sound their best, they're as far from being the best "in their price range" as it can get.
I know what I heard was simply my point of preference so I won't beat around the bush about that any further.
| I've heard veiling with the HD-600, which has always been a good sign that something was wrong upstream. Fix the problem, and it went away. IMO that is one of the HD-600's strengths, as well as a weakness. It doesn't lie to you, and it is not very forgiving of any weakness ahead of it in the audio chain. |
Alright, next time I rebuy some HD-600s, I'm getting with it the mandatory Linn Sondek CD12 and Holmes Powell DCT-2. I guess the HD-600s was trying to tell me my Sony DVP-9000ES and Audio Valve RKV Mark II weren't good enough to take away that warm, darkish midrange and rolled off highs I heard compared to the Grado HP-1s, Grado 325s, and Sony R10s.
I remember that poll about how much of a bang for the buck the HD-600s are. Given the required equipment they MUST be associated with to sound their best, they're as far from being the best "in their price range" as it can get.
I know what I heard was simply my point of preference so I won't beat around the bush about that any further.
Joe Bloggs
Sponsor: HiByMember of the Trade: EFO Technologies Co, YanYin TechnologyHis Porta Corda walked the Green Mile
Damn, you guys are making me afraid that the HD580s paired with Porta Corda are going to sound like
"Eeeeew, they sound like ****!" - Joe Bloggs "Dude, you left out the Linn CD12 and the HP-DCT-2" - Vertigo-1.
"Eeeeew, they sound like ****!" - Joe Bloggs "Dude, you left out the Linn CD12 and the HP-DCT-2" - Vertigo-1.
Beagle
His body's not a canvas, and he wasn't raised by apes.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2001
- Posts
- 9,195
- Likes
- 3,475
Quote:
Well, we don't know that, do we? All my headphones tell me when I have changed gear or cables. But they are only telling me there is a difference. They are not necessarily telling me the musical truth.
If you are saying that the HD600 shows differences/changes more obviously than other phones, I can agree somewhat. Switching to Kimber PBJ interconnects, the HD600 became less "veiled" and more open and clear. The AKG K501 had an even more profound improvement. But are the cables telling me about the phones or are the phones telling me about the cables?
This is where I get off musical track and get lost and frustrated. I start listening for flaws in the equipment instead of enjoying what I enjoyed yesterday. Others like Jude don't appear to let themselves get too affected by all this. Which is good. They simply enjoy what sounds good for them. If your headphones are giving your ears/brain/soul some musical pleasure without holding back information, they are good headphones. I really just wanted to find out if anyone else felt there was a "cloudiness/darkness" or "politeness" to the HD600. And I got some interesting replies all of them valid. They showed me that headphones are not only about sound, but personal taste as well.
| IMO that is one of the HD-600's strengths, as well as a weakness. It doesn't lie to you |
Well, we don't know that, do we? All my headphones tell me when I have changed gear or cables. But they are only telling me there is a difference. They are not necessarily telling me the musical truth.
If you are saying that the HD600 shows differences/changes more obviously than other phones, I can agree somewhat. Switching to Kimber PBJ interconnects, the HD600 became less "veiled" and more open and clear. The AKG K501 had an even more profound improvement. But are the cables telling me about the phones or are the phones telling me about the cables?
This is where I get off musical track and get lost and frustrated. I start listening for flaws in the equipment instead of enjoying what I enjoyed yesterday. Others like Jude don't appear to let themselves get too affected by all this. Which is good. They simply enjoy what sounds good for them. If your headphones are giving your ears/brain/soul some musical pleasure without holding back information, they are good headphones. I really just wanted to find out if anyone else felt there was a "cloudiness/darkness" or "politeness" to the HD600. And I got some interesting replies all of them valid. They showed me that headphones are not only about sound, but personal taste as well.
dhwilkin
Headphone audiophiles are practically the stuff of legend.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
- Posts
- 4,426
- Likes
- 12
LOL, Joe Bloggs!
Another problem, I think, is that when people try to describe how much something improved, many times there is a level of exaggeration present. Let's face it, if all "huge" improvements were really huge like most people think, we'd all be listening to more-real-than-real-life music. But we're not, and that's because, while the differences are huge to people who know what diminishing returns in high-end audio is like, people just getting into it may think this entry-level system they're thinking about getting would only be giving them 40% performance as opposed to the 80% they could have w/ that high-end amp, when in reality that entry-level system might be giving them 70%. Obviously I made those numbers up, but I hope people understand what I'm trying to say.
Another problem, I think, is that when people try to describe how much something improved, many times there is a level of exaggeration present. Let's face it, if all "huge" improvements were really huge like most people think, we'd all be listening to more-real-than-real-life music. But we're not, and that's because, while the differences are huge to people who know what diminishing returns in high-end audio is like, people just getting into it may think this entry-level system they're thinking about getting would only be giving them 40% performance as opposed to the 80% they could have w/ that high-end amp, when in reality that entry-level system might be giving them 70%. Obviously I made those numbers up, but I hope people understand what I'm trying to say.
Hirsch
Why is there a chaplain standing over his wallet?
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2001
- Posts
- 7,826
- Likes
- 71
Quote:
Exactly! Just because I like a particular sound doesn't mean that the next person will like it, nor should it.
It's not about a "right" sound so much as finding a sound that's fun to listen to. And the optimal "sound" that makes the equipment seem to disappear and pushes us straight into the music is a very personal preference.
| Originally posted by Beagle They showed me that headphones are not only about sound, but personal taste as well. |
Exactly! Just because I like a particular sound doesn't mean that the next person will like it, nor should it.
It's not about a "right" sound so much as finding a sound that's fun to listen to. And the optimal "sound" that makes the equipment seem to disappear and pushes us straight into the music is a very personal preference.
Users who are viewing this thread
