[markl]

SuperMario,
I listen to rock/pop, so for me the HR-2 is the clear leader there. Using my current rig on acoustic stuff is like shooting a flea with an elephant gun. I speculate, it would have no trouble at all with classical with its low noise floor and rich sound. It would probably give classical a little extra oomph and vividness that would help hold the attention span of a neanderthal like me.

OTOH, if you are looking for a more relaxed sound, a little more warm and fuzzy, more delicate, then the ZOTL makes more sense, but for me with my tastes, the HD600/ZOTL combo is a little boring. Melos might be a good half-way point between ZOTL and HR-2, but that implies the Melos has no character of its own, it has its own buttery flavor that is appealing, pretty good dynamics, but maybe not the fastest amp in the world.

In any case, the good news is that with any one of these amps, you will be able to drive virtually any headphone any impedence if you decide to switch from the HD600.

Mark

 

[SuperMario]

Hi, markun, thanks for posting

I am not sure if you are joking or you really mean that. Anyway, I think I should thank your kind words.

I have been living in the US for 14 months now; so, my English can't be that good!

It took me a while to compile the main text of the thread I created, for example. Everything I post I have to write it down in advance so I can look for errors and I correct them in time.

Nevertheless, I am sure you can find some mistakes in this very reply.

Cheers

PS - By the way, do you know anything about the Grace 901/HD600 combo?

 

[SuperMario]

Thanks, Markl

That is a very good deal of information (subjective, though, but very interesting). I appreciate it.

Despite that, I noticed you didn't respond to the last part of my question. I wonder why?...

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by SuperMario between the Berning MicroZOTL (tube based) and the HR-2 (SS), which one is more appropriate to deal with classical music? Or should I favour the Melos? You know, I have the chance to buy an used Melos SHA-1 or an used Berning; is it a big risk to go for used valve amps? Should I avoid that and go for SS, either used or new? I'll wait your comments Thanks, guys

I've bought several used valve amps. The only one I had problems with, a Moretto HAP-03, was bought new. Oh well. Berning amps are very well built. Later versions of the Melos amps have some reported reliability issues, but the SHA-1 seems very steady. There is a company that specializes in restoring Melos amps, and a Head-Fi member who does a lot of upgrades to them (I've got a carlo-modded SHA-1)

The stock Melos SHA-1 has more impact than the ZOTL, and a better low end. The ZOTL has more "air" than the Melos and IMO a better high end. So, it becomes a matter of picking sonic priorities. The modded Melos has better definition than the stock unit.

 

[dave-the-rave]

Mario,

I currently own a pair of HD-600's (stock cable) and both a Microzotl and an Earmax Pro. I bought both amps used through the head-fi 'Gear For Sale' forum and have had no trouble with either of them; in fact, I've benefitted from a) lower than new prices and b) extra tubes included in both deals.

FYI, my source is a Pioneer PDR-05 CD recorder with the Stable Platter Mechanism as a transport into a Muse Model 2 DAC with HDCD. Some nights I listen and think, "Man, this is the true crap." Other nights I hunger to hear a revelation, to hear music sound like I've never heard it sound before.

In comparing the two amps, the 'zotl excels at separating instruments (including voices) from each other. I like to say it presents the music like an "exploded view" diagram— like a drawing of a complex machine such as an auto engine in which the parts are drawn physically separated from each other on the paper so you can see how they all relate to each other and fit together. I listen to the band 'Yes' quite often, and they do a lot of vocal harmonies, where singer Jon Anderson, guitarist Steve Howe and bassist Chris Squire all sing the same part. Through the 'zotl, I can always hear all three singers as distinctly different voices, which I love. Through lesser amps, you know there's more than one person singing, but you can't put your ear on each one individually. The top end of the 'zotl has so much air, it's incredible. What I occasionally find lacking is the rhythmic drive, which is the strength, to my ears, of the Earmax Pro.

The EMP is a wide faucet through which the music effortlessly flows. Lots of bass drive, and again, this wonderful sense of flow. However, the top end is not as airy and open as that of the 'zotl. With the 'zotl, you're tooling around in an open convertible on a lovely day, the sun in your eyes and the wind in your hair. With the EMP, you're going 75 on the highway in a Lincoln Town Car. And you're sitting in the back seat. The ride is smooth and plush, but missing that sparkle on the top end that can give you goosebumps.

So, Mario, I am searching, too. In a recent thread about Mikhail's Supra, Hirsch's description caught my attention as the possible combination of the strengths of both my amps. We shall see. Meanwhile, I'm rethinking source, amp and headphones. So... good luck to you and let us know.

BTW, I've found that the best way to audition equipment is to live with it for a length of time. I've had my opinion change from day 1 to day 60, an opportunity one misses if you judge solely by a short audition. Buying used facilitates this approach: Buy it, live with it, listen to it and evaluate it. If you don't like it, you can usually sell it for what, or close to what, you paid.

 

[SuperMario]

Thanks, Hirsch, for posting once again and for the precious information.

I guess you are absolutely right: choosing from those 3 amps is, at the end, a matter of sonic priorities. My priority is musicality, I guess. I would like to have a good overall sound (I'm not a radical fan of deep bass or unlimited highs), with unfatiguing good detail and transparency, but, above all, sheer musicality! - that is a must.

Frankly, Hirsch, which of the amps would you choose if your likes were these and classical music was your favourite?

I would love to audition all the 3 amps - Melos, Zotl, modded Melos - and witness all their grandeur as well as their weaknesses, but, as this is not likely to happen, I will judge through your emotional comments, guys.

Thanks, again

 

[gbeard]

Hi Super,

Sorry, but I am going to throw you another pitch. First I need to say that I am woefully under-experienced compared to this rarified crowd. That said, I have just received my Supra, and my first impression is "WOW"! But I am a tube guy and there are some trade offs. Shes's a big ol girl--way bigger than she looks--and some might find her kinda homely too. But the sound of my HD600/Cardas driven by the Supra is captivating to say the least. My inside sources say she looks better after she breaks in. Whoa baby!

gb

Btw, my kids love playing your game.

Oops! I forgot about your voltage requirements--MZotl gets my vote then...Of course the Emmeline HR-2 is really great with the HD600's and is small and doesn't take any special care. Maybe Ray Samuels can build you a dual voltage power supply? Heck I don't know, there are too many good amps, so which one are you going to choose?

 

[SuperMario]

Great insight view, dave-the-rave!

I loved your description of how you "feel" the differences between your two amps. I thank you for the time spent and for the literary-style presentation with very nice "images".

Between your two amps, and considering your tastes, what would be your best choice for classical music?

You know, the Earmax Pro was in my list of candidates until the day I actually listened to an used EARMAX - oh, man, that sounded so dull and lifelessly I couldn't believe! Even knowing that the EARMAX is not the EMP, I couldn't recognize any of the virtues people use to rave about (but I guess those tubes were near the end - I can't find any other explanation).

I can see your point when you say that the best way to audition equipment is to live with it for a length of time. It's a good point, but I guess I don't have enough money to spend in such a trial and error experience.

The only two amps I've heard so far are the EARMAX I told you about and the Grado RA-1; and the latter one , I must say, sounded much better - and I mean MUCH better. At that time, I thought I could live with it, although I can hardly stand the annoying pop heard everytime I plugged the phones, even with the volume knob turned to zero. But then Kelly came to the forum saying that any of the Cordas surpasses the RA-1 in every respect. It was when I begun this quest for a better amp - the ultimate amp for the HD600's - not just a little nice amp.

So, does anyone know where I can listen to a Berning MicroZOTL around the Philadelphia area? What about an EARMAX PRO? Or a Corda? Or a Headmaster? Or a Grace 901?

I sound like desperate, hem?

Thanks to all... and let your comments flow.

 

[SuperMario]

Hey, gbeard, thanks for posting and congratulations on your new toy!

According to your first impressions, the Supra seems to match very well to our Senns. I have the MPX3 in my list and I was expecting to have some feedback from owners of the MPX3/HD600 combo.

Being products of the same designer, can I assume that Supra and MPX3 sound very much alike and both constitute a good match to HD600's?

Thanks

 

[SuperMario]

Hey, guys, I am back!

I'm sorry for my absence during the last days, but, unfortunately, my mother-in-law passed away on the 1st of August, in Portugal, and since then I have been observing a respectful mourning period.

Not getting any feedback from you, guys, during the same period (are you mourning someone, as well?)

, allowed me to rethink my priorities regarding what I am looking for and, so, I am now able to narrow my search.

This post is intended to let you know about my latest findings and resolutions. See this as the relaunching of this thread.

I have become aware that a tube-based headphone amp would not be de proper choice or best option for occasional use. If you add to this the fact that a tube amp also needs more maintenance and care, you will probably make a better choice buying a solid-state amp, instead.

In fact, my life, as it is now, allows me not more than 1,5 hours of listening every other day. So, after deep analysis, I have decided to override tube amps and GO FOR A SS AMP.

However, I would like to find a SS amp whose sound could get together the best virtues of both designs - tube and SS - and might be an outstanding partner to the HD600's (as I told you before).

The requisites must, then, be:

--- portability (battery-powered) or dual-voltage (115-220 V)capability;
--- musicality;
--- smooth, liquid sound;
--- non-fatiguing detail and transparency

I am thinking of Corda's, Ray Samuels', Grace 901, Sugden's, Headroom's,...

Are you willing to provide me with any inputs on these? Which one of these best matches with the aforementioned requisites?

I'll wait your comments

Thank you very much

 

[tom hankins]

Change your mind and by the MPX3 thats for sale in the gear for sale forum. Geat amp and tubes all burned in and ready to go.

 

[Jan Meier]

Dear SuperMario,

Just a little note: With both the Audio Valve RKV and the CORDA amps it's relatively easy to convert a 110V version into a 220V version. If you know how to use a soldering iron then it's simply replacing 2 zero Ohm bridges.

If you feel uncomfortable doing so, you could send me either amp and I'll do the changes for free. You only have to pay for the shipping from Germany to Portugal (?).

As for the CORDA amps (and most other solid-state amps), their power consumption is relatively low, and you might also consider a 220V > 110V step-down transformer for use in the US. Thus no changes are needed to the amplifier. You should be able to find such a transformer for less than USD 15,-

I hope this helps a little bit.

Cheers,

Jan

 

[SuperMario]

Hi, Tom

Thanks for the tip, but... Now you got me puzzled! You know, it took me a while to reach this decision of not getting a tube amp because bla... bla... bla (what ever the reason is), and now you are giving me advice on this MPX3 amp!!...

Do you really think this amp should be preferred to all the SS amps I listed?

Even if you do, I still believe this amp has no dual-voltage capability and... it's a little bulky!

 

[SuperMario]

Hi, Jan Meier

Thanks for posting.

I really appreciate your offer about the voltage conversion - I never used a soldering iron myself.

The Corda's are definitely in my list right from the beginning, but I never listened to one so far.

I think it is too soon for making any decisons regarding the victorious amp.

Thanks again

 

[tom hankins]

I'm just messing with you man. From what Jan said about the Corda's they sound pretty good for you. But I don't think tubes are any are trouble than SS.