HD600-like sound but with DT770-like bass power?
Dec 6, 2001 at 6:21 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17

Possum

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After listening to Beyerdynamic DT770's for over a day, I keep wondering if I should just keep these and sell my Sennheiser HD600's, but some characteristics of the DT770's restrain me from that idea.

What I like about the DT770 is its bass power, the kind of impact and feeling that I'm missing with the HD600. What I don't like is the elevated bass region that gives a pretty dark and heavy sound. I also don't like the more compressed sound I'm noticing that people say comes with closed headphones.

If anyone's heard these two headphones and knows what I'm talking about, have you heard anything that's balanced much like the HD600's, but hits you harder with the bass? Open or closed, I'm willing to tolerate a slightly compressed sound for a more engaging bass impact.
 
Dec 6, 2001 at 6:24 AM Post #2 of 17
Yes, absolutely. You must listen the the Beyer DT-250's They are very balanced, pleasant and non-fatiguing to listen to and they have bass slam like you wouldn't believe without muddiness and tubbiness. Their high end isn't quite as fast as the 600, nor the soundstage quite as open, but you owe it to yourself to give them a listen.

Happy listening!
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Dec 6, 2001 at 6:25 AM Post #3 of 17
I'm wondering if the 990's, which are open cans sound remarkably different (ie. less compressed sound, more open soundstage). Maybe its something you should look into? IMHO.

George
 
Dec 6, 2001 at 7:35 AM Post #4 of 17
Quote:

Their high end isn't quite as fast as the 600, nor the soundstage quite as open, but you owe it to yourself to give them a listen.


Is there anything that does have what I'm looking for with a high end like the HD600 or AKG K501? (HD600's and K501's high ends are different, but I wouldn't mind either one)
 
Dec 6, 2001 at 8:20 AM Post #5 of 17
Yes, I echo gloco's suggestion. I would try the 990's. Although my listens were very brief, I preferred them to the 770's in that the sound was less bass heavy, with a clearer, more balanced presentation.
 
Dec 6, 2001 at 10:56 AM Post #6 of 17
Hmm, I'm not sure I'd like the DT990's as THE solution I'm looking for. KShaft, in his recent review, said it had too much bass at times. HeadRoom's comparison graphs of the DT770's and DT990's smoothed normalized frequency responses show the DT990's as having about just as much, if not more bass (can't tell for sure by looking at where their responses fall on the graph, but rather by the shape of their response curves).
 
Dec 6, 2001 at 11:21 AM Post #7 of 17
Yeah go 990. Every person (except Tomcat) in these forums that have listned to both the 770 and 990 have preferred the 990.

I havn't listened to the 770 but I generally prefer open phones to closed ones.

One more thing. Break in. Break in. Break in. (ehhh that was actually three more things, nevermind) My 990's sounded thick and muffled in the beginning. They needed about 100 hrs before they started to sound relly good (less bass more mids).
 
Dec 6, 2001 at 12:48 PM Post #8 of 17
Possum,
I’m with mr_slacker: how about some break-in? My brand-new DT 770s improved noticeably within a week or two, I’d say. As I recall, they became faster and more dynamic and their soundstage opened up a bit. Some people say, any transducer will keep on improving and is probably most relaxed right before it breaks because of wear-out. But any changes after the two-week mark are probably too subtle and gradual to be easily noticed. I couldn’t say for sure, that the 770s kept on improving after this initial one or two week period.

Something that didn’t change too much during the first weeks has been their basic tonal balance. They will always sound darker than HD 600s (and slightly darker than the 990 Pros). But keep in mind: this darker tonal balance is in large part due to their considerable bass extension. They just have to sound darker because of it. Of course, whether all this body, heft and weight is more realistic or causes a simply bloated, less airy sound is for you to decide. I strongly feel , that the errors committed by the HD 600s are the far graver ones.

How bad can it be, if the bottom octave is missing, right? It’s just the area from 20 to 40 Hz, isn’t it? Well, if the top octave went missing, there wouldn’t be response from 10,000 to 20,000 Hz. Imagine this: response down by 10dB at 10,000 Hz – would anyone dare to call that hi-fi? We are so used to the absence of the bottom octaves or the feeling of impact that is conveyed through them, that it is more than mildly surprising if one hears this for the first time through a headphone. Having already owned the DT 990 Pros for some months, I got used to the DT 770 Pros almost instantaneously. To me, the DT 990 Pros are a tad brighter, which gives an impression of airiness, but at the same time they are less homogenous and therefore less transparent. I know this sounds strange and goes against the common belief that pronounced treble will give one more transparency, but I like the 770 Pros just a bit better than the 990 Pros because they are more transparent, they convey instruments as playing in unison, in tune and in rhythm regardless of their frequency bands, an regardless how loud the fortissimo. They let one hear through the mix or through complex harmonic and rhythmic structures. To me, it is just a bit easier to relax into the music and become emotionally involved into the performance with the 770s.

The DT 770 Pros have even more bass extension and impact than the DT 990 Pros. In direct comparison, the 990 Pros will show a slightly bloated upper bass and lower mids. In this sense, the 990 Pros even sound a little thicker. If one looks at the original frequency response measurements of HeadRoom, that are only available on the sites dedicated specifically to each headphone (without this misleading “normalisation” at the product measurements section, which is nothing but a comparative response curve with what HeadRoom thinks are ten of the best headphones), this actually seems to be supported by the graphs.

Finally, to my ears both the DT 770 and 990 Pros are more enjoyable, musical and have more extended bass response than the DT 250-80. In spite of the DT 250-80s' slightly boxy and closed sound, they are very good headphones, tough. It’s very likely that the DT 250-250 are even better. I don’t know it, but lini and Beyerdynamic say so.

Back to your original question, Possum: the Beyer headphones that most closely resemble the tonal balance of the HD 600s are probably the DT 531s, which are very fine headphones as well. However, finding a headphone that sports bass reproduction similar to the DT 770 Pros might prove to be impossible. They just might be the World Champions of “bass power”. Love 'em or hate 'em for it.
 
Dec 6, 2001 at 12:59 PM Post #9 of 17
Yeah, I'm still letting them break in right now. After the first 5 hours, they went from fatiguing on both ends to only seeming somewhat fatiguing in the bass - but the early impression might've been because I had about 2 hours of sleep the night before (I'm not getting ANY sleep tonight... err this morning... well there's always sleeping in class
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). I'll continue the break in to see how much better it'll get though and make a decision in a few days what I'll do.

I'll have to find a local audio shop at home that carries Beyerdynamic headphones so I can audition the different models.

After listening to only the DT770's for over a day and trying the HD600's again, I notice many more differences. I'll have to figure out which qualities I like the most from each and weigh their importance to me.
 
Dec 30, 2001 at 2:49 AM Post #10 of 17
I compared the 770s to the 831 and found the sound of the 831s more to my taste. The 770s just seemed overly bassy. Would the 990s end up being closer on the spectrum to the sound of the 831s or the 770s?

I have very poor hearing above 5k and maybe that is why I didn't notice the overly bright presentation of the 831s.

Funny that I can hear differences on the headroom max multi-position brightness switch and miss this on the 831s.
 
Dec 30, 2001 at 9:25 AM Post #12 of 17
Quote:

Is there anything that does have what I'm looking for with a high end like the HD600 or AKG K501?


Yep... the HD600 with a better amp
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Seriously, though, I haven't heard the 770 yet, but I can't imagine anything having more bass than the HD600 without being very bass-heavy. With a good amp the HD600 have *great* bass -- extended and tight.
 
Dec 31, 2001 at 2:13 PM Post #13 of 17
Quote:

I can't imagine anything having more bass than the HD600 without being very bass-heavy


MacDEF,
this isn't a question of quantity but of quality.
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Besides: there can never be too much bass extension.

nick danger,
the warm tonal balance of the 990 Pros is definitely closer to the 770 Pros than to the 831s or 931s.
 
Dec 31, 2001 at 4:38 PM Post #14 of 17
MacDEF is right on target here, IMO. The Senns have very good bass, but it takes an amp that can control them in the low frequencies to bring it out. "Loose" bass with the Senns could indicate that the amp being used is underpowered, or that it simply doesn't have control in the bass frequencies. It could also indicate an inadequate interconnect.

In the speaker realm, my subwoofer does well with an MIT MI-330 interconnect as a subwoofer cable. If I downgrade the cable, the sub looses bass extension and impact. A new sub can't fix this.
 
Dec 31, 2001 at 8:05 PM Post #15 of 17
Well if you look at the HeadRoom graphs the can with *the* most bass extension would be the Beyer DT931. Almost no bass rolloff even on the raw frequency response graph, and on the normalized graph shows you that the further down the low bass you go the more the DT931 leaves the 'ten best phones' in the dust. Yet HeadRoom calls them 'a little thin on bass'.
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What about those who have actually listened to them?
 
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