[Gluegun]

Kenny G?

KENNY G?

Those songs that don't have a melody, or any other parts of music, really.....the ones that just keep on going and going and going?

*laughs at vertigo*

 

[Vertigo-1]

*shrug*

I have no idea What you guys are talking about...listening to "Forever in Love" right now, it sounds absolutely beautiful.

Read my ******* sig.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

What?!? What's wrong with Kenny G???

Um... *snicker*... nothing. Nothing at all.



j/k

 

[BenG]

I remember the first time I heard that Kenny G remake where he samples and plays along with Louie Armstrong on "What a Wonderful World". I almost hurled when I heard it. In fact I was helping my sister move, and I almost dropped a chair when I heard it come on the radio. What a ...

What really killed me was the fact my sister really liked him back in the 80s. In fact she went to a show and got an autograph that said: "To Jenny G". She even bragged about touching his hair

 

[Vertigo-1]

I'll just pretend I never mentioned him after seeing all the animosity against him here and on Amazon.com...

He's cool with me though, good for homework times when you can't have Britney Spears singing in ya ear.

 

[BenG]

The reason why it ever sounded like I(or maybe some others) called the 580/600s "dark" is because I was making a COMPARISON to the V6/7506s.

Most of the frequency range sounds laid back, and the mid-range, especially is not as forward and as highlighted IN COMPARISON to other phones like lower-end Grados or V6/7506. Headamps w/ forward and highlighted midranges like tube-amps can change that.(but at the expense of bass response and tightness in the lowest frequencies of course)

However, the sound of the 580s is more transparent(separation of detail & size of soundstage) than the 7506s and the lower-end Grados. The sound of the 580s is bigger, just not as forward. This is most noticeable on recordings that have a big soundstage.

(I know cans don't don't project a deep soundstage like speakers but it's still there, just compacted and cleaner at that)

 

[BenG]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1 I'll just pretend I never mentioned him after seeing all the animosity against him here and on Amazon.com... He's cool with me though, good for homework times when you can't have Britney Spears singing in ya ear.

Hay, to each his/her own. We're just a bunch of 'cranky over the hillers ' - enjoy what you want.

Now Britany...that's another

 

[Tomcat]

Vertigo,
basically, I'd say live and let live. But Kenny G. AND Britney Spears? I mean, you understand, we have to draw the line somewhere. Probably a good thing, that I don't even know what Aqua is.

Back to the HD 600. I hear it as rather lean, with an overall bright tonal balance. I think BenG is very much correct about the importance of our frame of reference. The HD 600 might be dark compared to Grados, but compared to the warmth of my treasured Beyer 770/990 Pros, it's thin, without heft and presence.

Vertigo, I understand the AKG K 340, that joelongwood likes so much nowadays, is another headphone that has warmer or darker tonal balance as the HD 600? Am I right?

 

[Vertigo-1]

BenG, I agree with you on the soundstaging factor...I always say it's pointless to even try and compare ANY closed headphone's soundstage to an open one, simply because of the physical factor involved of physically blocking the sound from imaging far out to the left and right in a closed headphone. I also agree on the transparency of the Sennheisers vs. the V6s...but details? I'd have to give that one to the V6s just cause accuracy and nitpicking is their strength. I tend to hear more of those tiny background details using the V6s, than using the Sennheisers.

Which brings me to another point...really I sometimes find myself thinking of Etymotics as literally the best headphones (although I don't dwell on that thought for too long

), simply because you hear SO much more with them, than with any other headphone. There's just things you can barely hear with open headphones that are VERY present in the Etymotics...and when you add up all those things that you miss out on full sized open headphones, you just start REALLY missing those details. The imaging in the little soundstage the Etys afford you is also just astounding and stunning. In this aspect of being able to literally hear everything, I wonder if even electrostatics can keep up. Sure they have lightening fast transducers, but they also have the weakness of open back headphones. The more I think about things like this, the more in awe I am at just what an amazing product Etymotic has.

Tomcat, actually, the K340 was a extremely transparent pair of headphones. They weren't warm, rather just balanced out. However their sound was more focused, so you don't get an over-airy sound like I feel you do with the current day AKGs. They definitely weren't warm in the sense I get with HD-600s, in fact that was the first big difference I heard over the HD-600s, the highs just simply opened up much more and sounded much clearer, which I say is a result of those hybrid electrostatic drivers they use in there.

Guys, you know I'm kidding on the Britney Spears *pushes CD binder under bed with his toes...*

 

[SumB]

Quote:

I should note that it's true that with the HD600s I feel like I'm in the audience, while with some Grados I feel like I'm on stage, but that's not "mud" or "darkness"

You're right, soundstage perspective has nothing to do with darkness (and I'm not being a smartass here). It's the midbass hump, recessed upper midrange, and early treble roll off that constitute my stance on these headphones. That soft fuzz (distortion)? throughout the frequency range only serves to accentuate these traits.

I was unable to fully rectify these issues
with a source that doesn't roll the treble, an amp with a high resolution factor, and analytical interconnects.

This isn't to say they aren't great headphones. That isn't even disputable.

 

[gloco]

I plan on purchasing the 600's and an amp for xmas. Your post with what amps you test out ur cans was very interesting. I was leaning towards the Corda's from Meier audio, do you think this would be a good choice? If anyone else has this setup, please feel free to post a message regarding this combo, thanks!

George

 

[briantf27]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1 of other references. There is definitely a fuzziness/thickness to the midrange that I am not hearing from the other headphones I own. I think Tim D is another that has heard/owned HD-600s and Ety 4S, and I believe he's heard that veil I'm talking about too.

I think the veil is a good way of describing it. I hear it. In fact, I don't think its presence is debatable. The right electronics go a long way, but can't eliminate it IME. My biggest beef with the HD600s is the lean low end, though.

Brian.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

It's the midbass hump, recessed upper midrange, and early treble roll off that constitute my stance on these headphones. That soft fuzz (distortion)? throughout the frequency range only serves to accentuate these traits.

Once again, I contend that this is an amp matching issue. I don't hear any of these things on my system. Midbass hump? Not there. Recessed upper midrange? Not there. Early treble rolloff? Don't hear it. Soft fuzz/distortion? Nonexistant.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not just blindly sticking up for the HD600 because I own them (that seems to happen a lot in the world of audio). I own lots of cans, and I'll point out their faults without hesitating, because in the end what I'm after is the best sound. What I'm saying here is that a lot of these "faults" of the HD600 I no longer experience since getting the Max. And, granted, the Max isn't the cheapest amp out there -- but it's a very GOOD amp that is very neutral and has a lot of power. So if a very neutral and powerful amp drives the 600 without any of the flaws described above, that says more about other amps than about the HD600, objectively.

Quote:

I think the veil is a good way of describing it. I hear it. In fact, I don't think its presence is debatable. The right electronics go a long way, but can't eliminate it IME. My biggest beef with the HD600s is the lean low end, though.

Well, I'm debating the veil

I don't hear it. It simply doesn't exist on my system. And there is no "leanness" in the low end when they are driven by the Max. Again, I contend that a lot of this is the amp. From your profile, it looks like you're driving them with the MG Head. The traits you're attributing to the HD600 ("a veil over the detail" and "lean low end") are pretty common tube amp criticisms, and common criticicisms I've heard of the 600 by people using an MG Head.

And to say this "veil" or "dark" characterization is not debatable just doesn't hold water after reading this thread. Some people have that opinion, others don't, and the biggest contributing factor seems to be the amp (or the frame of reference).

So what I'm getting at with this thread is a more accurate characterization of the HD600. I feel that we should move away from generalizations like "dark" or "veiled" and move to the more accurate observation that the HD600 are pretty darn difficult to drive, and some amps just don't do it well (or some drive them "well" -- like the MGHead, which gives them a great midrange and makes them quite enjoyable to listen to -- but don't resolve bass and detail as well as others).

 

[sordidman]

Hi,

This is a very interesting thread to me. I was curious what you all thought about the HD590s compared to the HD600? Their reputation is that they're "brighter" than the HD600. I am listening to my HD600s through a lousy integrated, - Onkyo. My Corda is on order.....

My goal is to not have my headphone system sound too disparate from my main system; Mark Levinson 383 with Merlin TSM milleniums. If the HD600/Corda system is too much "warmer," than what do you think about pairing the Corda with the HD590s?

Thanks,

 

[briantf27]

That is my amp, yes, but not the only amp I've listened with. The veil isn't over the detail, it is over some of the treble range which I can't quantify having not yet tested it due to lack of time. And while the amp I use certainly isn't helping in the area of bass, these headphones, even when driven by solid state amps, are still lacking the fullness of bass you'd hear from, say, Grado RS-1s.... That's all I'm saying.

Soft fuzz and distortion? That's certainly a source issue.

Brian.