HD600 - bad choise or poor equipment?
May 23, 2009 at 5:49 AM Post #46 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by TopPop /img/forum/go_quote.gif
How do mids on the 600s sound "dry"?? What does that mean? (not trying to pick a fight; I'd honestly like to know, because I adore the midrange on my 600s, and it seems that this "dryness" could be due to something else... and not the headphones...)


"Dry" mids - mids that are brightly colored (high-end lift).
For instance I found that with HD600 the vocals are brightly colored with not enough body and not full-toned, balanced and natural. IMHO.
 
May 23, 2009 at 10:20 PM Post #48 of 65
I found my phones to sound just OK out of onboard, and great out of a Xonar DX.

but was still missing something...

Didn't know my speakers had an amp capable of making the HD600's/HD650's sounding decent, so I plugged them in there and the bass sounded much better and everything else lit up nicely.

I'm not sure how good the amp on the xonar essence is, but amps definitely help a lot... I didn't think they would at first.
 
May 23, 2009 at 11:43 PM Post #49 of 65
I have never heard HD600 without an amp. First I bought Little Dot II (tube amp), than Graham Slee Solo (SS amp), now Darkvoice 337 (tube amp). The last is the best. Source is important and it's G08 now. Buy a not too expensive tube amp first (the cost-effective ratio is high). Even you listen to a computer, that would be better for HD600 with an amp.
 
May 24, 2009 at 6:39 AM Post #50 of 65
STX cannot make HD600 truly sing. I've tried HD600 with many setup and never been upset. To me, when properly driven, it is one of best-bang-for-bucks all-round can.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
May 24, 2009 at 7:11 AM Post #51 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by WittyzTH /img/forum/go_quote.gif
STX cannot make HD600 truly sing. I've tried HD600 with many setup and never been upset. To me, when properly driven, it is one of best-bang-for-bucks all-round can.
smily_headphones1.gif



Or on the other hand, if you chose to ignore eveyones advice and your just looking for postive reinforcment than "Hell yes the Xonar is fantastic with the HD600, its got plenty of power and anyone who says it doesnt is just trying to get you to waste your money, cheaper is always better!" I learned that one from one of my buddies in the cable threads. :evilgrin:
 
May 24, 2009 at 7:21 AM Post #52 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by WittyzTH /img/forum/go_quote.gif
STX cannot make HD600 truly sing. I've tried HD600 with many setup and never been upset. To me, when properly driven, it is one of best-bang-for-bucks all-round can.
smily_headphones1.gif



It only gives you about 140mW. From personal and anecdotal experience, you need to put the HD-580/600/650 on an amp with around 500mW or better to get them to truly open up and sing. They sound flat, anemic and, well, veiled if you don't give them enough power. I've noticed that with several amps I've tried. Also, it seems like the people who are happy with their Senns are also giving them enough power. Most complaints seem to come from those who underpower them.
 
May 24, 2009 at 9:13 AM Post #53 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Or on the other hand, if you chose to ignore eveyones advice and your just looking for postive reinforcment than "Hell yes the Xonar is fantastic with the HD600, its got plenty of power and anyone who says it doesnt is just trying to get you to waste your money, cheaper is always better!" I learned that one from one of my buddies in the cable threads. :evilgrin:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It only gives you about 140mW. From personal and anecdotal experience, you need to put the HD-580/600/650 on an amp with around 500mW or better to get them to truly open up and sing. They sound flat, anemic and, well, veiled if you don't give them enough power. I've noticed that with several amps I've tried. Also, it seems like the people who are happy with their Senns are also giving them enough power. Most complaints seem to come from those who underpower them.


couldn't agree more.
biggrin.gif
 
May 24, 2009 at 12:54 PM Post #54 of 65
You have to try a dedicated amp for your 600s. PLEASE! Beg, borrow or steal. As with loudspeakers, underpowering them can be just as bad for the sound as overpowering them.

If you're not willing to do this, maybe you want to go for a completely different headphone like an HD25?
 
May 24, 2009 at 2:15 PM Post #55 of 65
The HD6xx are overrated as some kind of ultimate "reference" audiophile phone, imo. They're actually just like any other headphone in the sense that whether they are going to work for you comes down to personal preference. I think too many people force themselves to try to like senns just because "everyone else" says they are so great, but that is a wrong way to look at it, imo. In the end it's really about whether you like their sound or not. Some people just don't.

And without good amplification, just forget it. A $10 set of koss portables is going to sound more enjoyable than sennheisers that aren't properly amped. I used to think that some portable amps were sufficient to drive the senns enough to at least make them "entry level." But it's deceptive and they're really not. Even though you are hearing some things that make you think you are getting enough amplification, it's really a trick of the ears because *overall* the sound is mid/high anemic and bass bloated, with a veil of syrupy gauze over everything. And if you're not even using a portable but just listening from a consumer grade sound card, forget about it. You're not even in the ballpark yet to be able to make a determination. You need to either get a proper amp, or else get some different headphones.

$.02
ksc75smile.gif
 
May 24, 2009 at 2:22 PM Post #56 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The HD6xx are overrated as some kind of ultimate "reference" audiophile phone, imo. They're actually just like any other headphone in the sense that whether they are going to work for you comes down to personal preference. I think too many people force themselves to try to like senns just because "everyone else" says they are so great, but that is a wrong way to look at it, imo. In the end it's really about whether you like their sound or not. Some people just don't.

And without good amplification, just forget it. A $10 set of koss portables is going to sound more enjoyable than sennheisers that aren't properly amped. I used to think that some portable amps were sufficient to drive the senns enough to at least make them "entry level." But it's deceptive and they're really not. Even though you are hearing some things that make you think you are getting enough amplification, it's really a trick of the ears because *overall* the sound is mid/high anemic and bass bloated, with a veil of syrupy gauze over everything. And if you're not even using a portable but just listening from a consumer grade sound card, forget about it. You're not even in the ballpark yet to be able to make a determination. You need to either get a proper amp, or else get some different headphones.

$.02
ksc75smile.gif



I completely disagree. I don't think people force themselves to like the HD600/HD650. Lately I've read more posts of people saying they are selling their HD600/HD650 than keeping them. Nor do I think people believe them to be some holy grail of headphones either. Seems to me there are more people posting about Grados lately. And the Denon are still going strong with the D2000/D5000.

And exactly about the amplification. I believe the few who have purchased desktop, dedicated headphone amplifiers are a minuscule percentage of Head-Fi.
 
May 24, 2009 at 2:38 PM Post #57 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I completely disagree. I don't think people force themselves to like the HD600/HD650. Lately I've read more posts of people saying they are selling their HD600/HD650 than keeping them. Nor do I think people believe them to be some holy grail of headphones either. Seems to me there are more people posting about Grados lately. And the Denon are still going strong with the D2000/D5000.

And exactly about the amplification. I believe the few who have purchased desktop, dedicated headphone amplifiers are a minuscule percentage of Head-Fi.



Really? I most often seem to see them talked about in some kind of "holy grail" terms. Maybe that's just what I've perceived, though. Overall my point was just that they aren't the cure for all HP woes they often seem to be implied as, but ultimately a matter of personal preference, just like any other headphones. And I mean even with a good amp. In other words, a good amp isn't necessarily going to make you like them if you just don't like their sound.

Sometimes it's also better to just move on and try something else, maybe come back to the sennheisers later when you have more experience instead of jumping in with them from the beginning. They're not really a "newbie friendly" phone, imo. Like Uncle Erik said, they not only need enough amplification, but also the *right* amplification. That can take experience to know how to match them up properly to unlock their full potential.
 
May 24, 2009 at 5:17 PM Post #58 of 65
I think newbie have read about HD600/650 and wanted to own it. However, they may ignore about the fact that head-fiers who suggested also recommend to get a desktop amp, too.

No doubt, portable rig is a starter for newbie due to portability factor. and they may be deceived by the can-drive-high-impedance-can hype, personal judge due to the price range or high-end soundcard which is promoted as having a built-in amplifier.

Speaking of, high impedance or some sort of hard-to-drive headphone, it's true some portable amp can drive it, but it doesn't mean the phones are driven well.

In the same price range, desktop amp has more power to drive headphones than portable amps do. It's not about volume like many of newbie think "yes.. my portable amp can deliver plenty of volume for my Sennheiser.."

That was a misunderstanding.
 
May 24, 2009 at 7:00 PM Post #59 of 65
Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The HD6xx are overrated as some kind of ultimate "reference" audiophile phone, imo. They're actually just like any other headphone in the sense that whether they are going to work for you comes down to personal preference. I think too many people force themselves to try to like senns just because "everyone else" says they are so great, but that is a wrong way to look at it, imo. In the end it's really about whether you like their sound or not. Some people just don't.


I disagree. And I'd like to point out that I've come full circle with Sennheisers.

The HD-650 was my first "good" headphone, not counting the e3c and MDR-V6 I had (and loved) for years before the HD-650 caught my eye. When the HD-650 showed up, it was the best thing I had ever heard, save for the homemade ribbons. It was so good, I went online to see if anyone else liked hi-fi headphones.
smily_headphones1.gif


That led here and I quickly started picking up other cans. I fell hard for AKGs, Grados and Beyers. I didn't much listen to the Senns and they were in the closet.

But a few things happened. Along the way, I went from poor amplification to great amplification, and I also accumulated a lot of listening hours. Gear that seems really impressive at first listen tends to lose its excitement in the long term.

I still love the RS-1, but it's just not as much of a kick as it used to be. I know its gimmicks and that gets in the way of the music after a time. Same with lots and lots of other headphones I've heard.

The thing about the HD-600 is that while it isn't perfect, it isn't gimmicky and doesn't have that immediate "wow" factor that other gear has. The HD-600 doesn't put it's tricks between you and the music. It just delivers the music as well as it can. Despite a few flaws, it does that very well.

The trick here is that you have to listen to a lot of gear before the realization comes that most gear is nothing but a gimmick. The gimmick is there to grab your ears and make you buy during a test listen. Then you'll get used to it in several months and then you'll move on to buying the next piece of gear that uses a gimmick to grab your ears.

The only way off that perpetual "upgrade" cycle is to pick the non-gimmicky gear and stick with it. No, you don't get the immediate excitement of exaggerated (but fun sounding) bass or treble peaks that help the human voice. But you're left with gear that gets out of the way between the music and you. Also, keep in mind that you will get tired of the gimmick in a few months, now matter how hard you fall for it initially. Further, that you will continually buy more gear to chase that gimmick dragon.

Buying non-gimmicky gear is the only way to stop listening to the gear and start listening to the music. It also stops the continual buying and lets you focus on building and enjoying a music collection. At least that's how I see it. And it took a few years and several thousand spent on gear to have that realization.

While the HD-600 might not grab you like other headphones do, it gets out of the way and lets you just listen to music. That's why the HD-600 is something of a "holy grail" to me. Same with my very much loved AKG K-1000, Beyerdynamic DT48 and Quad ESL-63s. All of those sound "boring" at first listen, but over time, you realize how "right" they sound. There are no gimmicks to drive sales and whip the fanboys, and no gimmicks to get bored with six months down the line. You just get the music, with (of course) a few flaws, but nothing that really distracts you from the music.
 
May 24, 2009 at 11:41 PM Post #60 of 65
I agree UnkleErik. The AD900s grabs my attention at first listen. With the HD650 it's usually into the 3rd song that I just lay back and go, yes, this is what I wanted to hear. I find because Sennheiser lacks "gimmicks" I can focus on the music's detail a lot better also. The headphones don't direct me to the music, I'm able to focus on what I'm hearing better. Hope that makes sense.
 

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