[txa]

Hi all,

I only have a brief amount of time to post this - but thought I'd add some observations about my recently-acquired Sony SA5000. I'll post some more specific observations on the music I have been listening to at a later time.

If you look at my prior posts, I've been fortuate enought to be able to own the above-listed phones. The 595s have been sold in favor of the others (most significantly, the DT880), and the SA5K has been acquired out of sheer curiosity. Knowing that I probably won't keep all of them is financially comforting, but still, I'm probably on the verge of some sickness! This has got to be it for me. No more phones!!!! Read on if you have the same sickness, or are just interested in some comparison/contrasts.

Most of the music I listen to is female vocals (holly cole, diana krall, some eva cassidy) and contemporary jazz with good melodies and strong bass lines (marc antoine, peter white, david sanborn, jesse cook). I do listen to a variety of classical, pop, classic rock, and, gulp, some 70's disco. But the vocals and jazz are predominant, so that is my bias - out on the table.

To summarize some of my prior posts on the pre-SA5000 phones:

HD650: totally seamless, competent, and engaging. Bass is outstanding, but too much - and is my only major complaint. More on this later, but I feel that the bass has been elevated to make the phones more appealing to the masses. Nothing like lots of bass!!! Right??

DT880: not quite as competent as 650, but VERY close, and with a more neutral bass as well as better detail air in the upper octaves. This is my current favorite - the one I can't take off my head. It is probably the least impressive in the short term, but most impressive in the long. I had the same feeling about the Kef 105.3's the first time I heard them.

HD595: good, but IMO, not in the same league as the others.

K501: engaging like the 650 and 880, vocals and midrange to die for, but at the expense of the ends of the frequency range; lack of bass weight (for much of my music) reduces the realism; strictly vocals and well recorded trios are SPOT on and very engaging; on my head about the same as the 650, but for different reasons

Okay - now the SA5k in comparison/contrast:

First, the surprises:

- not nearly as bright as I thought they would be, especially given the posts. 880's, in some sense, have a brighter sound, but the SA5K presents details very fast, and very clean. So like Bill Ward has observed, they can sound a little harder. I think they are more prominent in the presence region, so they may be perceived as brighter than the 880s. But the 880s have a more prominent air. But not as clean. Hope I'm getting this across ok....

- regarding the hardness - it does not irritate in ANY way, and can only be thought of as hard when compared to such a soft delivery as an 880 or 650. With respect to the 501, the clean-lines between notes is about equal, but the SA5K has more weight in the bass - and what I am perceiving as greater dynamic range. So for me - more tolerable than 501k with increased volume. 501s at elevated volumes, with some recordings, can sound ALL MIDRANGE. SA5Ks never sound this way.

- for a phone that extends to 100k and has such an emphasis on upper-octave detail, what I find to be it's best trait is the bass: absolutely stunning. Very neutral like 880, but faster and with more impact. Truly - it makes the 650s feel like Sennheiser over-egged the pudding. For bass-freaks, it might even actually sound thin it is so fast. But I find it to be the best bass of all the phones I've had to date.

Next, the notables:

- Truly breathtaking detail - especially the upper octaves. Listening to Holly Cole's "Too Darn Hot", the lyric near the end of the tune "All the average guys you know, like to play they're favorite sport" - she is whispering the center-stage lyric in left and right channels, and this is most clear on the SA5Ks. Definitely prominent on 880 and 501 as well - but not as much. On HD650, very difficult to hear - have to concentrate.

- Comfort: at least for me, these are the most comfortable of the bunch. This may have been listed under surprises, because I wasnt' expecting them to be so much so. They feel weightless and generate little heat over extended periods. I expected the leather to get a bit warm, and I guess it does, but it is much less so than the Senns.

- Bass - as listed above. Outstanding.

Next, the disappointments:

- Only one really... realism, or perhaps a better term, fidelity. Specifically, piano and vocals just don't sound real to me. Hyper-detailed, and even engaging, YES! But not real. I've been trying to figure out exactly what is missing, and I think it is the transition from the upper bass to the lower midrange. Diana and Holly are missing some of that lower vocal sexiness. There is a bit of weight missing behind those sonic images. The vocals are extremely clean, but lacking weight and proper size. Kind of a micro-image, which leads me to believe there is a suckout somewhere here in the midrange. Because they are so clean, the midrange is very present, it just lacks something...

I guess that's it for a 'brief' post.

 

[chillysalsa]

I agree about the last complaint: I didn't find piano & vocals realistic at all.

Something about the whole frequency response wasn't quite right, nothing sounded natural. I checked this with some pink noise on a test disk, there was something definitely off with their frequency response.

But for music that was not 'natural' or real to begin with, like electronica, the 5K's were outstanding - the toned down bass kept everything under control while unleashing all the detail in everything from Delerium to Devo.

 

[mintyfresh]

I found that the SA5K soundstage is less convincing and less natural. It is a fine piece of equipment for resolving music in the treble and midrange. I found the bass to roll off after about 80hz. I agree it's better for electronica and some brighter rock music. I prefer to use the HD650 for classical music that has considerable spaciousness, and for small ensemble acoustic instrumental music or vocals. The bass response of the 650's sounds more realistic to me, and the bass is more robust. Nora Jones on the SA5K sounds more forward and detailed, but more realistic and enjoyable on the HD650. The HD650 is not as fast for electronic music but the differences compared with the Sony wasn't that important to me to switch headsets, let's say. The treble range of the SA5K can be uncomfortable after an hour. The bass and perhaps the midrange of the HD650s can hurt, immediately, so I have to turn the volume down. I don't know where that extra sonic energy is coming from because it doesn't "sound" loud, but it hurts, so it must be coming from the bass range where human hearing is presumably less sensitive even if the sound energy is shaking the inner ear bones around too much. Does anyone know?

 

[morphie]

I think its amazing someone finds the k501s and HD650s engaging. Hands down to you my friend ^^

 

[Andrea]

Really interesting, txa, but it seems to only reinforce my ideas on the SA5000 ultimately.


May I ask you a quick question - did you let the HD595 run in completely, before you sold it (I mean, no less than 300 hours) ?

 

[acs236]

Very nice review/impressions. I like brief synposes of the other headphones you've owned because it lets me determine how similar our ears (apparently) are.

As it turns out, I've owned all of the headphones you've listed except for the Beyer 880s, which I heard at headphone meet. I really liked them too.

I pretty much completely agree with your comments about the SA5000. In particular, I'm a big fan of its bass also.

 

[txa]

Thanks guys - I was hoping you would reply, I know many of you were looking at a few of these phones.

Andrea - regarding the 595, I don't think I got it to 300 hours. Between dedicated burn-in and my listening time, I believe it was about half of that - about 150 hours or so. So it's likely that they had even more improvements coming. It's been about 2 months since I've listened to a 595 as well, so my memory of the sound is fading and probably a bit distorted. I remember liking the tonal balance and presentation but wanting more space between the notes. I think I felt the 595 was more neutral than 650 (less bass, which I preferred), but 650 was so clean I ended up liking it a lot more. Plus, with vocals and instrumental, I prefer the distance of the 650. I'd actually have to look at my prior threads to see other details I had noted at the time.

I'm probably a fan of the 880 as much as you are of the 595. I can see why some may feel the 880 a little bland or boring - and it's midrange, while good, doesn't stand out as much as the 650 or the 501. But it's overall balance of traits, coupled with my music preferences, really is a great combination for me. I think what the 880 and 595 share is well-roundedness.

I'm not sure yet whether or not I'll keep the Sonys. I do want to get them to at least 150 hours as well, to see if the tonal integration improves and the midrange gains a little weight. If so, this will be one fantastic headphone - and at least a great alternative to the 880. If anything, even without burn-in, I am finding them a very 'fun' phone, and am much enjoying the slam and dynamics with some of my pop, and rock. And the detail is intoxicating, even if the sound doesn't seem real. Like another had posted, synth, electric music (even electric jazz), do benefit more than vocals, piano, and acoustics.

I'll keep you posted!

 

[Wmcmanus]

Nice impressions, txa. It's always helpful when people posts comparisons as you've done to other headphones that a lot of head-fi members are familiar with.

I'm starting to get excited about the SA5000's! My pair has been sitting in a box waiting for me up in Florida since January, and I'm finally going to make a trip to pick them up, along with the gold Grado 325i, a bunch of new CDs, DVDs, and other assorted items. I can hardly wait for next weekened to come!

 

[Jahn]

- for a phone that extends to 100k and has such an emphasis on upper-octave detail, what I find to be it's best trait is the bass: absolutely stunning. Very neutral like 880, but faster and with more impact. Truly - it makes the 650s feel like Sennheiser over-egged the pudding. For bass-freaks, it might even actually sound thin it is so fast. But I find it to be the best bass of all the phones I've had to date.



---------

You know I have to agree with this. Don't shoot me, but I thought this bass was the best PRaT&Extension bass combo I've ever heard. Doesn't SLAM like a Grado, doesn't BOOM like a DT770, doesn't wrap you in dark chocolate like a R10 or HE60, but something about that Bass signature wraps up all my likings, you know?

 

[JaZZ]

txa...

...I also think the bass is the best thing the SA5000 has to offer: very precise and detailed and pleasantly round and flowing at the same time. I agree with your finding about the flawed transition between bass and mids -- unfortunately this makes the bass appear like attached to the rest of the spectrum. And the step from the upper mids to the treble makes for a further inhomogeneity and also contributes to a certain thinness and artificiality.

For me the HD 650 offers most of the SA5000's virtues in a much better balanced and coherent characteristic without its spectacular presentation, but greater naturalness instead.

The SA5000 has all ingredients to be an absolute top headphone -- if only its frequency ranges would fit together seamlessly. As it is, it's not the best match for acoustic instruments.

 

[spike33]

Nice review, txa

I agree for the most part. SA5000 has a fun and detailed presentation and the bass kicks ass. It definately doesn't sound natural though. It also seemed like the bass, mids and treble were detached from each other.

When I compared K501 and SA5000, I found SA5k to be noticeably cleaner. K501 sounded muddy in comparison. I disagree that SA5k sounds better at higher volume, it can get a bit piercing. I tend to listen to it at low volumes more often. K501 sounds alot better at high volume because it brings out the bass (although I'm learning to use bass boost now to save my hearing

)

 

[Bill Ward]

txa . . .

That's a nice write-up. I've got all the headphones except the HD595, and your impressions echo many of my own. I think we hear things the same way.

What are you using for amplification? I've noticed significant differences in performance with different amps? I'd also be curious to know your source.

Again, I really enjoyed the comparison. Hope we hear more from you.

Regards,

BW

 

[txa]

Hi Bill,

Yes - I am very glad you asked, because I'd like to get a nice headphone amp. Currently I have two sources: an outstanding musical fidelity 308 cd player, and an apple ipod. I love the 308 - it is in my home system and is mostly used to drive a Bryston which drives a pair of Kef 205's. I don't yet have a home amp, so as ridiculous as it sounds, I use a Headroom Total Bithead as my main headphone amplifier. When I'm on the road, which is quite a bit, I use an iPod, apple lossless, and the bithead. When I'm at home, I connect the 308 to the bithead.

A friend of mine has an original Prehead. It is leaner and more detailed than my bithead, which pairs nicely with the 650 and the 880. With the 501, I actually prefer the Bithead more. I don't know much about the opAmps inside each of these machines, but the BitHead seems a tad slower and warmer - but engaging nonetheless. I also have an old Denon 1025RA receiver with a headphone out - but it's pretty bad. Everything out of it lacks dynamics and sparkle. You can imagine the HD650 out of this!

I don't have much experience with tubes but am open-minded to the idea, as long as the up-keep isn't too much of a seance.

Regarding my tastes:
A while back, I read a post from a guy describing his tastes as wanting chocolate forsting on choclate cake - an analogy for wanting the most detailed amp driving the SA5Ks. I'd describe myself as wanting synergy - somthing to add body to the SA5Ks, or more detail to the HD650s.

It may very well be that with the right amp, the 880s could be knocked out of the #1 position as my preference. God help me if I start sampling amps. I'd really like to narrow it down to one, as I think selling amps would be more difficult to do than selling popular phones like the Senns or Sonys.

I'm fairly pleased with the Bithead + 880 combo, but I'm tired of replacing batteries! I know headroom is revamping their lineup. Amps that have looked intriguing, or the ones I've seen the most detail on, are the new Meier Prehead, Grace 901, and the headroom stuff. I do enjoy the Meier xfeed much more than the headroom. At least with the bithead, too much bass is added to enjoy it, especially with the senns. The Meier xfeed has great effect, and none of the additives.

Any insight you can give me on the amps would be greatly appreciated!

And by the way - I've very much enjoyed reading your posts as well. It was a while back where I had asked for a description of 880/SA5, and 501/SA5. Great posts. I tried to delay the urge to purchase the SA5K as long as I could....

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by txa Andrea - regarding the 595, I don't think I got it to 300 hours. Between dedicated burn-in and my listening time, I believe it was about half of that - about 150 hours or so. So it's likely that they had even more improvements coming. It's been about 2 months since I've listened to a 595 as well, so my memory of the sound is fading and probably a bit distorted. I remember liking the tonal balance and presentation but wanting more space between the notes. I think I felt the 595 was more neutral than 650 (less bass, which I preferred), but 650 was so clean I ended up liking it a lot more. Plus, with vocals and instrumental, I prefer the distance of the 650. I'd actually have to look at my prior threads to see other details I had noted at the time.

Thanks for explaining in detail.

The 595 needs twice the time to really blossom, I've found. It gets better till and beyond 300 hours, both crisper and warmer (as if the freq. resp. was slowing getting flatter in mid-treble and treble), in a way I've found to be relevant. Sure, it won't ever quite reach the 650 for clarity, that being my sole "complaint" about the 595's sound (but then I have some about the 'tonality' of the 650's midrange, not quite 'intimate' enough for me, reason enough for me to rule out the 880 too).


Bye

Andrea