HD 800S vs HD 600 for mixing and mastering
Apr 23, 2020 at 10:16 PM Post #46 of 53
I tried Sonar Works EQ with the HD800S, and IMO when you EQ it with their 'perceived flat speaker' response curve, all the technicalities of the HD800S is thrown out the window. The sound became flat without dynamics and the precision of the imaging was gone. Sounded very smoothed out, and not as clear without EQ. IMO, software EQ processing messes up the general SQ.

EQ is as accurate as the accuracy of the mesurement utilized, and technology of the Equilzer software/hardware to precisely control the driver as intended. Also, drivers do not measure identical.
 
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Apr 24, 2020 at 2:40 AM Post #47 of 53
I tried Sonar Works EQ with the HD800S, and IMO when you EQ it with their 'perceived flat speaker' response curve, all the technicalities of the HD800S is thrown out the window. The sound became flat without dynamics and the precision of the imaging was gone. Sounded very smoothed out, and not as clear without EQ. IMO, software EQ processing messes up the general SQ.

EQ is as accurate as the accuracy of the mesurement utilized, and technology of the Equilzer software/hardware to precisely control the driver as intended. Also, drivers do not measure identical.

Seems sonarworks eq only really works properly in the HD 600/650 in my testing. I had something similar happen with the T1.2 on Sonarworks, it was horrible ruined the sound of the headphone, custom EQ using EquailizerAPO worked far better. And I assume it will work better on the HD 800S as well.
 
Apr 24, 2020 at 9:32 AM Post #48 of 53
Those FR graphs that ADUHF posted from rtings are interesting. I have always found the HD650 to be more bassy and dark compared to the HD600 and yet both raw and compensated curves are very similar.
 
Apr 24, 2020 at 10:14 AM Post #49 of 53
The headphone review site rtings also uses a target headphone compensation curve similar to the Harman target. There's a graph of their current target curve at the bottom of this article, with the original Harman curve for comparison...

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/raw-frequency-response

This is really cool, thank you @ADUHF! I'm just worried where I end up going down that rabbit hole but hey, the weekend is just around the corner. Happy exploring!
 
Apr 24, 2020 at 10:20 AM Post #50 of 53
Seems sonarworks eq only really works properly in the HD 600/650 in my testing. I had something similar happen with the T1.2 on Sonarworks, it was horrible ruined the sound of the headphone, custom EQ using EquailizerAPO worked far better. And I assume it will work better on the HD 800S as well.

Frankly, the more I think (and read) about it, the less I'm worried about EQing, calibration and neutral response in general. Working with reference tracks has become a key step in my mixing process so all I need is precision from my headphones and the rest boils down to comparing "apples with apples". I like the snappy snare here, how does it sound in my mix, etc.
 
Apr 24, 2020 at 7:03 PM Post #51 of 53
I think the point raised my many audio professionals is that the HD 800S soundstage is unnatural, giving it that echo and metallic ring... HD 600 is a better tool for mixing, according to them, and presents the music in a reasonably wide sound stage and mixing decisions translate better. I imagine the HD 8000S will give more satisfying experience for purely listening to music though.
 
Apr 25, 2020 at 12:27 PM Post #52 of 53
Those FR graphs that ADUHF posted from rtings are interesting. I have always found the HD650 to be more bassy and dark compared to the HD600 and yet both raw and compensated curves are very similar.

They are similar. The HD 650 has a slightly darker overall tilt though than the HD 600. The easiest way to see the difference on the RTINGS graphs is probably using the compensated plots. And flipping back and forth between the two headphones, using the headphone selector on the left side above the graph. These are the two plots I'm referring to...

Senn HD 600 Compensated Frequency Response

Senn HD 650 Compensated Frequency Response

As I mentioned earlier, I don't have total confidence in RTINGS target frequency response curve, which is represented by the dashed line on both their raw and compensated plots. Imo their target curve still probably overestimates the average response in the treble. And doesn't do a perfect job of modeling the resonances on their head & torso simulator in the treble. So when I look at their compensated frequency plots, I will tend to look more at the position of the peaks in the treble relative to the target curve, rather than the valleys or average response, to gauge the accuracy of the response in that region of the graph.

Imo, both the HD 600 and HD650 are pretty close to neutral in the treble and midrange. It's a little difficult to gauge which of the two is the more neutral though based solely on the compensated plots, because of the issues with the RTINGS target response curve that I outlined above. The HD 650 looks maybe a little better balanced overall, due to it's slighty higher response in the bass. Audiophiles who prefer a somewhat brighter and more detailed sound might find the HD 650 a bit dark or lacking in air and sibilance though, because of it's darker overall tilt.

The left and right drivers also look a little better balanced on the HD 600 plot. The left driver on the HD 650, which is represented by the solid blue curve on the above graph, appears to have a slightly darker overall tilt than the right driver, which is represented by the solid gray curve. Imo, the left and right curves appear to line up somewhat better though on the compensated HD 600 graph. Whether that's consistent across multiple units/headphones though, I have no idea. It could just be in the two particular units RTINGS measured.

FYI, I have never listened to either model to the best of my recollection. So most of the above info is just conjecture on my part, based on the two plots. Based on the graphs, both headphones also appear to be somewhat lacking in bass though, due to their open-back designs.

The HD 58x Jubilee is also open-back btw, and has a little better extension in the bass than the above HPs.

Senn HD 58x Jubilee Compensated Frequency Response

The Jubilee also appears to have a little more unevenness in the treble though than the HD 600 and HD 650.
 
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Apr 25, 2020 at 1:51 PM Post #53 of 53
This is really cool, thank you @ADUHF! I'm just worried where I end up going down that rabbit hole but hey, the weekend is just around the corner. Happy exploring!

Yes, my friend! The weekend is finally here. So party on!... safely from home. Or at safe distances on the beach, if your local rules permit it.

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Plz also see some of my comments in the post immediately above re potential inaccuracies in RTINGS target frequency response compensation curve.
 

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