[drarthurwells]

Originally Posted by drarthurwells: Don't go all solid state in a preamp/amp but do go all SS in your source. Use a tube preamp and solid state amp (or hybrid amp) or an all tube integrated amp. Select tube setups with as much care as you select acomponent.


Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid /img/forum/go_quote.gif see thats where this hobby is frustrating, my system has evolved to all solid state and i am very satisfied with it, but its very revealing of the source. if you have a crapty front end then even good recordings will sound bad. tough to explain but 'crap in'/'crap out'. some people dont believe that and just cover 'crap in' with 'colored out'.

Solid state has its superb points no doubt. I love the Pass Labs sound with speakers. However, all solid state has some leanness in the tone body. I need a tube preamp to give the tone more body to a natural degree - too much tone body is euphonic. If you add a tube too early - like in the source - there is too much danger of euphonic sound later as the source signal is amplified.

Your point about a good source is critical. My HP system went to higher level with the Rega Saturn. All my CDs sound better with it, even the bad ones (which now sound good).

 

[Gonz]

An interesting question!

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Originally Posted by OpusRob /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seems as though many people here move through lots of different equipment in their journey, learning as they go and fine-tuning their ears along the way.

Some of us have less expendable income than others. Sometimes our journeys are dictated by budget, not choice.

I am a bang for the buck kind of guy. I've been a sound hobbyist for probably 17-18 years, and most of this time had little funds to work with... so I worked towards refining the art of making something out of nothing.

What I have learned in the process is very interesting to me. There is definitely a sweet spot, and there is a point of diminishing returns. There is value to be found, and compromises can be made. But most of all, and I think we all realize this... There simply isn't, a "best of all possible worlds". There is always a latest, greatest. There is always a desire to just try something else.

Thats why, for most of us, audio is more of a hobby and pursuit, than a "just buy the best once, and be done" type of thing. Music reproduction is not the same kind of one time, long term investment as a laundry washing and drying system.

Quote:

While there is a greater expense to this model, it seems as though people actually refine their tastes and their listening skills doing this. It also seems as though something might be lost by skipping this process and jumping to the "best of all possible worlds," to quote Voltaire.

Just to use a simple example... AM/FM radios are fun for me. There is the appreciation and preservation of old tube rigs, which have their own, unique listening experience... compared to pocketable portables which offer a great reciever for their size. Versus the unit you'd want bedside or on your desk, perhaps with world band capabilities and a ton of bells and whistles, like filters.

I can give examples like this for all sorts of things I collect, HAM radio, car audio equipment, home audio, and yep... headphone kit too

Turntables are a great example also, as it's sometimes astonishing how much the same basic device can sound so different.

Quote:

<snipping>I don't have endless funds to devote to this hobby, I wouldn't want to miss out on learning experiences that could help to refine my already detail-oriented ears. I kind of think that I would be missing something if I were to skip the learning process and jump to a set up that I haven't earned through trial and error.

You don't have to "earn" anything, you've been listening to music your entire life... and as a teacher, I'm sure you've listened very closely. It's just fun to hear different setups... and it's fun to "grow", or upgrade.

What is really worthwhile about my journey, aside from the fun I've had? There has not been much about it thats frustrated me, aside from my lack of an EE degree

(I'd really love to do alot more DIY).



Because you are on a budget, I will make a few recommendations. The first thing I'd do, in your shoes, would be to pick up a few types of headphones.

Sennheiser HD485 (open)
Koss Pro3AA Titanium (closed)
Sony EX90 (comfortable, hybrid in-ear/bud type)

These are a few that stand out as having a good bang for the buck, each is under $100, and all of which I really enjoy listening to. From here, you can decide which type you enjoy the most, and later on upgrade from there. This would count as good learning experience #1.

The next question would be what source are you plugging the phones into? For me, investing into a decent, yet cost effective soundcard was a great move. My eyes, er.. ears really opened up.

If you're using a computer, or a portable device like an iPod, then the next step is an amp. My choice was to go with a Vibe from Norm (Tigger here). He no longer makes the Home-Vibes

but his current amps can be AC powered.

He has a great reputation, and I can personally recommend the guy and the amps he makes, for I love mine... and it's super with the phones I listed above. Inexpensive too!

You don't have to worry too much about cables, but DIY interconnects is a great, and not too expensive hobby in itself. (doesn't take much time either) I'm very obsessed with making my own cables... I just enjoy doing it. I'd recommend you have a go at it!

I'm awaiting a whole shipment of bits and pieces to make cables. Funny, I don't NEED any cables right now... but I just want to make some different things.

I'm now on a mission to try a few other amps. For no other reason than to "see". I don't feel as if I'm missing anything, but if along the way, I do "find" something... well my friend, thats the pure joy and fun of this pursuit.

For less than $500 you can have three sets of nice phones, a good amp, an interconnect, and a new soundcard. After a year or two, maybe invest another $100-$300 into new phones or a different amp, just to try... and sell the item it replaced on the secondary market, if you wish.

 

[GlendaleViper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpusRob /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for all your feedback so far. I find the journey intriguing, the same way I found my path into photography worth the experimentation. I think moderation and careful purchasing, along with a healthy dose of skepticism can act as a foil for my current rampant curiosity about amps, headphones, and the like.

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Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will admire but not get hung up on the fact that I can't afford a better unit. I'll get mine and be happy with it. If I did my homework well, I will.

These are the money shots right here. If you really don't mind spending time reading up on reviews and impressions of just about anything around here, combined with a very focused goal and budget of your own, you can make a great system out of any budget. Meets are a lot of fun too, allowing the chance to hear a lot of interesting equipment from a range of budgets and equipment you are unlikely to hear in a local hi-fi shop... even some impressive DIY creations.

Music is the passion, the gear is simply a means to an end. If you treat this like a hobby, look forward to many years of listening enjoyment. If you just want a nice sounding rig... look forward to many years of listening enjoyment!

 

[upstateguy]

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Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...My thoughts are to get a reliable, good portable, tube and SS amp. If I am allowed, one day I would also like to get a good stat system. That may be nieve, but I don't envy what others have. I will admire but not get hung up on the fact that I can't afford a better unit. I'll get mine and be happy with it. If I did my homework well, I will.

Hi HC

It seems you have progressed from getting one single high end amp to having 3 amps and a stat sys. on your short list.... and it probably won't be long before another pair of headphones joins your K701s...

As they say around here:

Resistance is futile, YOU have been assimilated...

Regards

USG

 

[matt8268]

The journey can be fun, especially as a part of a forum like this. You can try stuff out, and resell what you don't like for a very good resale price (think of the lost amount as a rental fee). That being said, I didn't find the sound I really liked until I went to a meet and was able to try out some different equipment. For me, there's never a final destination, but there are definitely HUGE rest stops along the way where I feel satisfied that I have the perfect system (for me). Until I feel the need to start journeying again.

Listening to stuff at a meet will allow you to fairly easily determine what level stuff you want to buy at.

 

[Morph201]

Geez, after reading the posts on this forum, it really makes me think! I already blew close to a grand on just an ipod, amp, lineout dock,and IEM... and I STILL think my portable rig is crap! Sooo, I must spend another 2 grand or so to try and find that ever elusive perfect sound (hence my sig.!)... but you know what!? I'm ready to throw in the towel, just be happy with what I have and when I wanna hear the sweet music (i.e. jazz, classical), I will head down to my local Jazz club OR the museum, and listen to REAL MUSIC LIVE! It don't get any better than that! Nuff said!

I wanna thank head-fi, my wallet wants to thank head-fi, even my WIFE wants to thank head-fi... for all the money you caused me to waste!

 

[rincewind]

Well I started in the "I want to learn" camp, I've since moved to the "I just want to enjoy my music" camp. I think it's a good idea to hear a wide range of gear to compare and get a taste for what you'll enjoy the most, but to me there's definitely a point where I draw the line and start making purchases I expect to last me several years, as opposed to months, as they have in the past.

As you said, most people's funds are limitless, as yours aren't. I think you need to decide, which would you rather, to really enjoy you're music with high quality gear from an earlier point (ie buy up big to start with, after having done your homework), or do you want stages of revelation. I don't know about you, but there have been certain purchases (eg standalone DAC) that literally made me think "GREAT... All my previous listening to date has been a waste, because I was only hearing about 80% of what's there, now I gotta listen to it all again to hear what I've been missing). Personally, I would be happy with the (non-existant) 'perfect' system from the get-go and have a big dopey grin on my face for longer. But I'll admit you need to listen to a range of stuff to get something to your tastes.

Converse to the "I'm learning something each time I upgrade" idea is the idea that if you've been hearing something (hypothetically) perfectly since day 1, surely there's some value in that too? Because you wouldn't have heard all these 'marred' reproductions of music, and when you heard other gear if would reaffirm how good you're gear is. Each to their own though.

I guess one of the reasons this is even a consideration is because there is so much varied and affordable choice on the market. It's less likely for people to own 20 cars than 20 headphones (much less all at any one time!), I'm sure you'll all agree. I think, at least for me, Head-fi is an evil necessity (for the time being). For me, it WAS guitar... then fast cars... which were both sorted when means permitted, now it's headphones/music. Unfortunately for my wallet I can't see the music fixation subsiding I want be listening to music when I 'kick the bucket.'

 

[Happy Camper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi HC It seems you have progressed from getting one single high end amp to having 3 amps and a stat sys. on your short list.... and it probably won't be long before another pair of headphones joins your K701s... As they say around here: Resistance is futile, YOU have been assimilated... Regards USG

I know. Our Father......

 

[NeoVibe]

sorry to reply only now to this thread, but I bought this week an amp (Raptor) that is several times the price of my previous amp (MG Head OTL). and a couple of months ago I did a major source upgrade too.

For me, someone with no musical trainning/knowledge, the journey has actually made me learn something. With my current setup I can actually enjoy music in ways I couldn't with inferior gear. And to be honest, I think some types of music, particularly classical, simply can not be properly enjoyed without a minimum quality of reproduction. When I got my new source (X-DAC V3) the first thing I noticed was how classical music was not 'flat' anymore. In comparison, with my previous source it's as if the orchestras had no maestro and the personnel wasn't 'feeling' what they were playing; with the new source things started to 'make sense'.

So, in a way, I did learn something. However, thinking about all the hours I listened to music not reproduced in a proper way, I feel sorry for not having taken a 'leap of faith' earlier.

But, for you, a music teacher, I have no doubt: buy the best you can. Your ears are already used to best hi-fi in the world: real life! Everything else is necessarily going to be inferior. Don't waste your time and ears.

just try to listen to as many equipments as possible so that you can decide for yourself 1)the type of sound you want and 2)if spending 100$ more on something is actually 'worth' (for you) as much as 100$ in terms of enjoyment. In other words, find out where the 'law of diminishing returns' comes into play and the price increase becomes too steep compared to the extra enjoyment/performance that you'll get.

happy listenning (and teaching)

 

[hciman77]

I have arrived at a stable system, I have not changed any part of it for many months and do not plan to do so until something breaks - almost certainly the Philips DVP642. I have been through upgrades/downgrades/sidegrades and have tried out 9 CD sources (4 Rotels, I Denon, 1 Yamaha, 1 Onix , 1 NAD and the Philips) and 6 home amps in the last 3 years. The one constant has been the Sennheiser HD580s which I love to death. Fun, yes but irritating, now I just listen to music as I have come to the conclusion that most CD players and amps I have come across really do sound much the same to me so why bother changing them ?

 

[OpusRob]

Thank you all - still some great insights coming. I am more and more thinking of getting myself started with a solid amp, nothing extraordinary. I should be able to learn enough from that to leap once into something more satisfying. I want to minimize the number of leaps, so i want each one to make an impact.