Smyth's SVS Realizer is well known, has been demoed at national meets - really works - head tracking in particular is important for front/back disambiguation with small turning of your head - just like you do all the time with real sounds http://www.smyth-research.com/technology.html
if you haven't heard the SVS Realizer with personalized calibration in a multichannel setup you simply don't have any basis to comment on what can't be done
Hi and thanks for the valuable advice.
And with this system it is possible to get also the sensation of sound coming from the front ?
I understand how challenging is the task.
I guess i would be pleased to get at least sound out of the head ... front sound is very very difficult.
And this make the HP listening not realistic, i am afraid.
A huge compromise with reality.
Regards, gino
Hi and thanks for the valuable advice.
And with this system it is possible to get also sound from the front ? I understand how challenging is the task.
I guess i would be pleased to get at least sound out of the head ... front sound is very very difficult.
And this make the HP listening not realistic, i am afraid.
A huge compromise with reality.
Regards, gino
Hi and yes of course. Not that my advice would be very worth of consideration i am afraid.
Leaving aside for a moment the dream (front sound) i am very willing at least to take out the sound from the head. This is my present and reasonable goal.
To decrease the listening fatigue at least. In the next days i will try akg 501 and 701 with two amps, one will be the one in the Benchmark Dac 1 just to mention.
I think i will have to leave with that for a while.
But i understand technology is running fast and the demand for virtual sound personal system is extremely high.
Thanks again, gino
Good luck with your endevour. Technology manipulating the signal is indeed advancing fast, still I think the old fashioned time difference based natural detection of your ear/brain system works differently. The HD800 driver is in a different position than most other headphones and it is projecting the sound onto the ears rather than directly into the ear canals. This is close to the natural porcess of sound perception and maybe this is why it's so much better creating the impression of a relistic sound stage better than other phones. That the detail retrieval is also excellent will of course help to transport all the ambient noise information of the recording space.
Good luck with your endevour. Technology manipulating the signal is indeed advancing fast, still I think the old fashioned time difference based natural detection of your ear/brain system works differently. The HD800 driver is in a different position than most other headphones and it is projecting the sound onto the ears rather than directly into the ear canals. This is close to the natural porcess of sound perception and maybe this is why it's so much better creating the impression of a relistic sound stage better than other phones. That the detail retrieval is also excellent will of course help to transport all the ambient noise information of the recording space.
The fact that the drivers face back is part of the magic. I guess the ring drivers blow smoke rings of sound onto your ears? Lol.
The HD800s are what I feel is a step forward for dynamic drivers. The size of the drivers and how the sound waves actually come towards the ear. The way they try to isolate the driver and make the whole headphone out of a resonant absorbing material makes it very different. After seeing how the small circle that holds the driver is almost disconnected from the rest, almost how they may do it with the new AKG flagship. Maybe someday everyone will try and disengage the driver mount?
Here is a great write up about the headphones.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/brilliant-sennheiser-hd-800
Hi and thanks you All for the very valuable advice ... very very interesting.
If i am not wrong, leaving for a moment aside the various cross-feeding solutions, the Akg k1000 are quite famous for their out of head sound (the second best goals for me)
In that case the drivers are placed frontally and firing to the ears, in a way similar to that of the HD800.
This could be indeed the best comprimesed and waiting for some revolutionary crossfeed.
Given that the HD800 are quite above my budget now the challenge would be to find other HPs with a similar arrangement of the drivers Maybe even just asymmetrical ear pads, thinner on the front and thicker on the back could give a hint of the same sensation ?
For very little cash also
I have a pair of k701 coming ... maybe that could be a good basis for some special DIY asymmetrical ear pads ?
I have to read more but the idea is very intriguing me
Thanks a lot again, gino
Hi and thanks you All for the very valuable advice ... very very interesting.
If i am not wrong, leaving for a moment aside the various cross-feeding solutions, the Akg k1000 are quite famous for their out of head sound (the second best goals for me)
In that case the drivers are placed frontally and firing to the ears, in a way similar to that of the HD800.
This could be indeed the best comprimesed and waiting for some revolutionary crossfeed.
Given that the HD800 are quite above my budget now the challenge would be to find other HPs with a similar arrangement of the drivers
[COLOR=FF0000]Maybe even just asymmetrical ear pads, thinner on the front and thicker on the back could give a hint of the same sensation ?[/COLOR]
For very little cash also
I have a pair of k701 coming ... maybe that could be a good basis for some special DIY asymmetrical ear pads ?
I have to read more but the idea is very intriguing me
Thanks a lot again, gino
Just for fun I wanted to post the next headphone I am going to get The Sony MDR MA 900.
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRMA900-Headphones-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B007DCCK60
These are as low as $200 on EBay and have the drivers floating outside your ears. They are getting great reviews having been said to be equal to the HD600 in ways.
Just for fun I wanted to post the next headphone I am going to get The Sony MDR MA 900.
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRMA900-Headphones-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B007DCCK60
These are as low as $200 on EBay and have the drivers floating outside your ears. They are getting great reviews having been said to be equal to the HD600 in ways.
woww .... this must be a record indeed.
Very very intriguing ... let us all know how they sound
By the way ... they could have done much much better for the headband ... a robust and comfy headband is really a nice thing to get. This looks flimsy ....
However ... what really counts is the concept and even more the outcome
if the concept will work more HPs on the same line will follow ... i am completely sure of this
A really really interesting headphones.
I am going to try soon, on a very cheap level, the V2 from Steelseries ... intended for videogamers but they should have a decent sound
They come also with angled drivers ...
Please review the Sony ASAP ! i am very intrigued
What a pity that headband ...
Thanks a lot, gino
P.S. I have given up with the dream of front sound ... i am just looking for sound out of my head.
Even if now i cannot take the hd800 out of my head ... to see them is to want them ... what a headphone indeed.
Crazy that i am ... i was thinking to some kind of DIY experiment with a outer ring and the actual driver fixed to the ring with a hinge on the front, to allow to vary the angle of the driver and find the best position
by the way also Staxes had angle drivers ...
The reviews even say they are light and flimsy feeling. Still the best part of the reviews are that you don't feel them on at all.
Yes, the drivers would be the largest ever for me. Still I kind of understand the headband, if the phones are light you don't need a massively heavy headband for them.
I just purchased two sets of headphones this month so, I'm not sure when I will get them? In sometime within 6 months.
The reviews even say they are light and flimsy feeling. Still the best part of the reviews are that you don't feel them on at all.
Yes, the drivers would be the largest ever for me. Still I kind of understand the headband, if the phones are light you don't need a massively heavy headband for them.
Hi and yes the good thing is that they should be quite comfy indeed.
It is a very interesting concept. I am sure that if it works many others will do something on the same style.
I do not know if the big drivers are needed to compensate for the complete open design.
I read of a some kind of holographic effect ... wonderful !
It could be a revolution ...
Thanks again, gino
The best of the breed are AKG K-1000 "earspeakers" and fed from the AKG BAP-1000 processor/amplifier specially designed for the K-1000. Although the processor is loaded with some preset "filters", for the full utilization of the system measuring the HRTF function of the listener is recommended. If I owned the BAP-1000, I would get the said measurements in a heartbeat.
Even with the "average" HRFT in the processor's memory, this setup is capable of positive in front localization - not stereo stretched beyond from ear to ear in a plane, something rarely approached by any headphone other than the K-1000. Most certainly the image does not collapse behind one's head - except when it is supposed to do so.
I have used my own "binaural natural" (headworn mics) recordings - which I remember hearing live while being recorded, as these mics do not present any acoustical change to the condition without them. And in front of you localization achieved by the combo K/BAP-1000 was superb - certainly better than anything I have yet heard.
The best of the breed are AKG K-1000 "earspeakers" and fed from the AKG BAP-1000 processor/amplifier specially designed for the K-1000. Although the processor is loaded with some preset "filters", for the full utilization of the system measuring the HRTF function of the listener is recommended. If I owned the BAP-1000, I would get the said measurements in a heartbeat.
Even with the "average" HRFT in the processor's memory, this setup is capable of positive in front localization - not stereo stretched beyond from ear to ear in a plane, something rarely approached by any headphone other than the K-1000. Most certainly the image does not collapse behind one's head - except when it is supposed to do so.
I have used my own "binaural natural" (headworn mics) recordings - which I remember hearing live while being recorded, as these mics do not present any acoustical change to the condition without them. And in front of you localization achieved by the combo K/BAP-1000 was superb - certainly better than anything I have yet heard.
Hi and thanks a lot for the very interesting advice.
I have come to some conclusion
1) a particular placement of the drivers (angled, detached from the head, etc.) can help to get the sound off the head feeling that is good of course
2) to get the in front localization some kind of signal processing is really needed.
For now i would do only with the 1st point ...
For the point 2) i am sure something will pop up soon. Driven by the crazy videogamers crowd (thank to them for that anyway). And virtual reality research in general.
Thanks again for the very interesting recommendation, gino
the Smyth SVS Realizer has been on headfiers heads for 7 or so years now - waiting for new tech not necessary
there have been other serious hrtf simulation products - some at least made it into pro studios - this isn't completely new or unknown
the academic research, demos go back even farther - the limit hasn't been knowledge for quite a while now waiting for cheap head tracking personalized hrtf virtualization tech however may continue
Hi and thanks again for the valuable advice
Reading the reviews i understand that it is a very specialized unit with remarkable technology contents
But for me price is indeed an issue.
So i have to make some comprimises.
i will do without head tracking for instance.
To have an orchestra moving with my head is a strange idea,
The origin of sound is fixed in reality and if i turn the idea the perspective of course will change.
But i believe in crossfeeding and dsp to be a very viable solution.
For now i will look for headphones able to tame the sound in the head sensation (this can cause me an headache).
To trivialize, an HD800 of the poor guy ...
This one seems to have similar characteristics at much lower price
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