[Nigel]

Reading through some old Hi-Fi magazines over the weekend it left me wondering, have there been any major developments in headphone design & headphone sound quality in the last ten to fifteen years?

In a December '93 review of Sennheiser's HD580 Precision,

< The potential for a great headphone was within Sennheiser's grasp. It seems that someone chickened out when it came to the crunch, producing a headphone that limits itself to being able to soothe, comfort & generally entertain. These are worthy ends in themselves but the case breaks down with the observation that the HD580 also filters out some of the crucial highlights. Dynamics are subtly toned down, giving a very slightly under-played feel, & the top end has been rendered unusually smooth & sweet. Transient information sounds slightly deadened. In summary, the HD580 is outclassed by such designs as the AKG K400, the standard bearer at this price. It isn't even a clear all round improvement on the flawed but more dynamic HD560 Ovation 2.>

Also an interesting comparison review January 1991 of the Sony MDR R10 , AKG K1000, Stax Lambda Signatures & Sennheiser HD480's. I'll just quote the summary.

<So the conclusion is simple. Each of the high end headphones shows what can be achieved in specific areas. And sensationally revealling it often is. I'll miss the incredible midband lucidity of the Sony phones, the power & tautness of the AKG with its consistently higher level of detail & resolution, & the amazing bandwidth & incredible dynamics of the Stax. But of all the four headphones in this group the ones I'd be happiest to live with, partly for practical reasons, partly for their sheer musical integrity, albeit comparatively simplified are the Sennheiser HD480's. They're not the best headphones money can buy. That accolade goes to Sony, Stax or AKG depending on your criteria. But the HD480's are the best allrounders & the best value.>

So if you think about it, the Sony R10 & AKG K1000 have been in production for at least thirteen years & are still considered two of the finest. Nothings changed. If the HD580 isn't a clear all round improvement on the HD560 & the HD600 is only marginally better than the HD580, & the HD650 is only marginally better than the HD600's we can't have travelled too far. I tell you what, I'd love to hear a pair of HD480's & HD560's just to see what they were like. Anyone still using these models?

Best,

Nigel

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

I really don't think it has. The R10, K1000, and CD3000 are the best dynamic cans I've heard, and they all are quite old.

 

[JaZZ]

I still haven't haven't been able to seriously listen to the Omega II (which I'll do soon), but apart from it, there may not have been that much progress, if at all, in the high-price area since Orpheus, R10, K 1000 and Stax Lambda -- maybe as a response to the diminishing market under the sign of the economical (and ecological) crisis of the last few years, but also because of the multimedia competition.

In the affordable price range though there has been a lot of progress -- when I only think of the Sennheiser palette (which I know best of all), where the HD 580 marked a real step into high end. Not everybody may agree on this, but from my perspective it's true, whatever the cited magazines say. And the HD 650 is very much the best headphones I've ever (seriously) heard. I still have very few experience with the absolute top contenders (pricewise) though. But my comment applies to the «affordable» category anyway.

 

[Taurui]

As far as I can tell, the Highend got better (PS-1, HD650, Omega II) while the mid and lowend became sonically better too (K240S, new Senn HD5x5s, Senn PX100/200 and so on...).
While some all-time favorites were able to stay in their position (KSC-35, Grado HP1k

etc) there is still much movement going on.
I hopefully await the future

-Taurui

 

[gpalmer]

I think the low and mid points have improved tremendously, the high end less so. For instance the HD-650 at it's price point crushes what used to be out there. It's sort of ludicrous that a headphone as old as the R-10 is still the top of the line, but that's where we are.

 

[cadobhuk]

does HD650 crash CD3000?I used to read alot of comments like "HD600 can't hold a candle to CD3000",and now I read everywhere that HD650 is much better then 3ks.That 3ks have "one-note bass","fake soundstage",and that "their exessive bright treble is mistaken for high detail,while in truth HD650 have much more detail" and all of that.Is it all true?

 

[Notorious P.I.G.]

I don't think so. All my favorites are at least ten years old.

 

[markl]

With only 7-8 manufacturers of better quality cans worldwide, where maybe 3-4 different brands are really widely available in any one given market, and a distance of many years in between product revisions, there does not seem to be enough pressure on them or real competition to spur them to try to achieve more, innovate more, push the envelope. In the speaker world, you have hundreds of manufacturers of all shapes and sizes, and incredible competition, constant annual revision of products, lots of innovation and improvement. With digital gear, you are constantly seeing advances and upgrades that improve over last year's model. Not so, humble headphones... Although, on the bright side, in the last 9 months, we've seen more brand new high-end cans unleashed than at any time since maybe the late 80's/early 90s. But that still ain't sayin' much!

 

[pbirkett]

Echoing what others have said already, I'd have to say no, as I listen to my headphones which first came out in 1991. Then again, neither have speakers really come on that far either (if at all), but with headphones, I'd say that perhaps the amplification has come on much further than the headphones themselves. I think this may be because older gear generally always had both a headphone socket, and perhaps built in headphone amplification, rather than just resistor based stuff we see now. Many of the high end manufacturers of speaker amplifiers have done away with headphone circuitry because they argue it decreases the quality to the speakers. Anyway, I say amps have come on quite well, but headphones, certainly not. People make a big deal of angled drivers in the new Senn's, but you would think more companies would have made this move, since Sony has had em in the R10's since about 1986?

 

[doctorjuggles]

Does this opinion from everyone extend to canalphone technology? How long have the ER4s and the E5s been around?

 

[Mike Walker]

Hey, it isn't just that we're using the same headphones as ten, or even twenty years ago. The truth is, we're using the same MICROPHONES as 40 or even 50 years ago! Those big, warm, tube-condenser mics from the likes of Neumann, AKG, Telefunken, and others, dynamics from Shure, Electro-Voice, and Sennheiser, and Ribbons from RCA and Coles that were used in the 50s, and in some cases even the 40s are STILL NOT ONLY IN USE, but they are the PREFERRED mics for many uses, including capturing the human voice.

Message? Transducers from not just years gong by, but DECADES gone by were far better than a-they had a right to be, and b-than recording formats and electronics of their day could capture.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadobhuk does HD650 crash CD3000?I used to read alot of comments like "HD600 can't hold a candle to CD3000",and now I read everywhere that HD650 is much better then 3ks.That 3ks have "one-note bass","fake soundstage",and that "their exessive bright treble is mistaken for high detail,while in truth HD650 have much more detail" and all of that.Is it all true?

Despite what may or may not have been observed in this direct comparison... I still personally can't withstand the Sennheiser house sound for more than a hour at a time.. I just don't feel emotionally engaged with it at all. So meanwhile I don't agree with the "one-note bass" or "fake soundstage" comments at all... I don't go out of my way to argue otherwise, because it seems relatively pointless to do so.. I've got enough on my plate just with those canalphones

However, I've gotten to audition HD650 extensively several times.. I just don't like them. So does HD650 crash CD3000?... For some people, regardless of what may or may not technically be true, that'll never be the case.

Back on topic of headphone advancements... advancements in the sound field isn't like.. say.. the computer tech industry. We have yet to reach a point in the computer tech industry that's anywhere near where our imagination has taken us. We don't have voice recognition that works, we can't converse with our computers... Artificial intelligence is still severely lacking... Basically, computers hasn't gotten to a point of where we want them to be, so the room for advancement is still huge.

On the other hand, I've got friends that can't tell the difference between an A900 and CD3000, or the difference between HD580 and HD650... Sound quality is something that's already reached a level where it satisifies most people, at least at a consumer level. If one were to ask, "How much further can we take sound technology?" It's hard to answer that on a very singular, stereo sound level... how much more qualitative improvement can be made once you've reached something that's already so close to real life concerts and perhaps with details and separation even beyond that?

Hence the improvement in the hi-fi audio arena in the past few years has been on more tangible things... such as 5.1 surround sound, SACD, DVD-Audio and such. It's hard to quantify or even imagine how to take just your basic sound reproduction to another level. Yes, new products do come out once in a while.. but for example, Sennheiser's new 5x5 series is still one of those up-in-the-air purchases. Some people switched over from the 580 or 600 and really liked them, some people couldn't wait to sell/return their HD5x5 series headphones.

The intangible subjectivity of "sound quality" makes advancement in this field hard to come by. Your top-level products are likely to remain that way for decades to come... and consumer level products might get better with time, but most of those are focused on aesthetic design rather than sound quality itself. The mid-hi-fi area will likely remain for years to come.. a matter of personal preference and choice rather than true advancements and improvements. I.E. my preference for CD3000, and some user's preference for HD600 over HD650.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorjuggles Does this opinion from everyone extend to canalphone technology? How long have the ER4s and the E5s been around?

Canalphones hasn't been around as long.. I think only since 70's or 60's since musicians started using them as in-ear monitors for on-stage performances. However, the technology behind balanced armature drivers has been around even longer than that. Before canalphones became musical devices, the same type of drivers were used in hearing aids.

ER-4 is about 5 years old now? E5 is only in its second year I think, but Shure has not been making canalphones for a very long time.

However, even then there has been very little advancement in canalphone technology in general. The material that goes into balanced armature drivers are mostly the same (if not all the same). In fact, almost all balanced armature drivers (again, if not all) come from the same manufacturer. I think all companies like Etymotic and Shure does is take balanced armature drivers and tune them, tweak them, design casing around them to make them sound the way they want them to sound.

The drivers aren't necessarily identifical, they can be different size, and optimized to produce different frequencies... but the underlying technology and material hasn't changed at all. Even less than dynamic drivers, in which some companies has researched their own special material for diaphram, magnets.. so on.

Another good example, ProPhonic 2X-S uses the same tweeter (high-end driver) as the Shure E5c, meanwhile they use different bass drivers. The 2X-S has a lot more high-end clarity than the Shure E5c though... You would think they used different tweeters, but it's actually the other way around. There's more a pair of good sounding headphones than just driver itself

 

[plainsong]

Sometimes they don't make em like they used to. I really miss the old 600ohm Beyer 990s that were over 15 years old.

 

[lan]

I have been wondering this also. I will know once I listen to the Sony Qualia 010.