[MdRex]

Honestly, is head-fi about high end setup or increasing enjoyment in music. We know that there are few who could really afford a K1k, CD3k, staxes or Orpheus and many are more than happy with their usual Grado, Senn, AKG etc. paired with a decent amp. I believe having a dedicated "high-end" forum would probably promote elitism more than anything.

 

[Akathriel]

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Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are a lot off phones out there but I think that the Stax threads cover this. It's not an ideal solution but judging by the activity it works. I think that a new forum should be dedicated to system building in general and leave the older forums to do what they do. The systems do not have to be high end but they will be, by the nature of the beast, more expensive then headphones plugged into a sound card. It's my opinion that people here at Head-fi spend too much time thinking about how much stuff costs instead of evaluating the gear on sound quality basis.

I like this idea a lot. I don't think it is in anyways snobbish and as long as it stays on topic I think it would be a great idea.

 

[Zanth]

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Originally Posted by MdRex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Honestly, is head-fi about high end setup or increasing enjoyment in music.

Both actually. And if better gear gets one closer to the music, then why should it not be discussed?

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We know that there are few who could really afford a K1k, CD3k, staxes or Orpheus

Do we know this? I don't think so at all. For one thing...K1000's used to sell for $400, the CD3000's are not too pricey at all and there are quite a number of Stax offerings that are very reasonably priced with or without an amp. If one is focussing on the $3995 MSRP R10's or the $5999+ MSRP HE90's (or the cool $18k of the Big O as it originall retained for) then sure, there might not be that many around here who have the cash or are willing to part with it for these eclectic items, but that is not to say that they are not available, that they can't be source for a song, nor that they don't deserve some extra attention when the majority of the board is being flooded with more modest and/or budget discussions.

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It and many are more than happy with their usual Grado, Senn, AKG etc. paired with a decent amp.

No doubt, and no doubt a number of Grados and Senns and AKGs can match the upper echelons of Head-fidome when properly tweaked and paired with a fine amp. These ideas would be thoroughly flushed out in discussion. HD650/RS1 balanced? Yep...WAY high-end. And not soo pricey either.

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I believe having a dedicated "high-end" forum would probably promote elitism more than anything.

It very well may...but on the flip side...not having one seems to be diminishing the comments of very astute and accomplished listeners who have a lot of experience in the greater audio hobby. Their insight is very much appreciated and anything to draw them back into discussion is a plus in my opinion. Not to mention the great service to all when all those who have heard the very best or own it, might comment and provide greater insights. If manufacturers were to peer in and note that a subforum was becoming very very popular with a good body of discussion but insane page views...it might motivate them to get cracking on some new high-end gear.

 

[MdRex]

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Do we know this? I don't think so at all. For one thing...K1000's used to sell for $400, the CD3000's are not too pricey at all and there are quite a number of Stax offerings that are very reasonably priced with or without an amp.

That's the problem, K1k is not seen as an High end phone are their current Head-fi used market rate is around $1.2K a far cry from the $400 it used to be. The CD3000 is out of production and guess what follows? Price hikes. Staxes are not too bad for what they are, but Omega II is certainly very expensive in every sense of the word.

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HD650/RS1 balanced? Yep...WAY high-end. And not soo pricey either.

I guess its because the truly high end is really just improving on the "last 5%" of the audio spectrum. One of the criteria that makes a high end setup being the pricing is inevitable.

 

[Zanth]

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Originally Posted by MdRex /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess its because the truly high end is really just improving on the "last 5%" of the audio spectrum. One of the criteria that makes a high end setup being the pricing is inevitable.

Maybe it is only improving that last 5% but for some that 5% is where the real magic comes into play, from taking something rather terrestrial to the truly transcendental!

One criteria will be price, no doubt about it. Setups won't be complete without a wonderful source and no doubt I stand by the garbage in garbage out adage. Therefore, a megabuck source in my opinion will be a must in really maxing out a system. However, since I think that an RS1/RA1 is a killer combo as do many pro reviewers, this could be used as a starting block for the truly high-end, because synergy is so important. I think a forum dedicated to only headphones costing more than 2k would be rather boring because well...there are only 4-5 that retail (or retailed) for that (R10, HE90, Omega I and Omega II, Qualia); however, there are certainly wonderful phones below 2k that folks consider high-end (K1000, GS-1000, PS-1, HP-1000, balanced RS-1, balanced HD6x0) Yes most are unavailable from retail outlets, but they can be had on the used market and the web is one's friend!

For those that do own HD6x0's for instance (and there are a boat load) if they were to peek into a high-end thread that commented on how large of a difference balancing makes...then they might be motivated to go for it and sample some balanced amps and perhaps a balanced source. I'm not advocating a price no object forum. I'm advocating a "high-end" forum or a "budget forum" so that the high-end discussions don't get buried as quickly.

With the site's continued growth, I want to see discussions of all types flourish. Right now, we aren't seeing that at all.

 

[Carl]

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Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif But are these companies still making them?

How many companies still make dynamic headphones that retail for over $500? Four?

 

[Zanth]

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Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif How many companies still make dynamic headphones that retail for over $500? Four?

How about in alphabetical order?

Audio Technica, Beyerdynamic, Grado, Seinheiser, Sensaphonics, Shure, Sony, Ultimate Ears, Ultrasone, Westone

AKG has a system that runs 1100 MSRP and their 701's are just a tad shy of $500 MSRP. Hmmm, that pretty well lists everyone save for Koss and then Stax right?

The point is that having a dedicated electrostatic forum would be futile with mainly 1 single company producing and only Sennheiser as a competing high-end company. These companies would both be well covered in a High-end forum considering the recent run of HE90's and the newly released amps are likely to be the main talk of the forum for quite some time to come.

Oh, and remember, I never stated that a phone had to cost a certain amount to be high end. I think most Stax are poo and they generally retail for over $500. I'd take an HD600 or 650 balanced over anything less than an Omega I any day. It's about performance, not cost.

 

[Carl]

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Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif How about in alphabetical order? Audio Technica, Beyerdynamic, Grado, Seinheiser, Sensaphonics, Shure, Sony, Ultimate Ears, Ultrasone, Westone AKG has a system that runs 1100 MSRP and their 701's are just a tad shy of $500 MSRP. Hmmm, that pretty well lists everyone save for Koss and then Stax right? The point is that having a dedicated electrostatic forum would be futile with mainly 1 single company producing and only Sennheiser as a competing high-end company. These companies would both be well covered in a High-end forum considering the recent run of HE90's and the newly released amps are likely to be the main talk of the forum for quite some time to come. Oh, and remember, I never stated that a phone had to cost a certain amount to be high end. I think most Stax are poo and they generally retail for over $500. I'd take an HD600 or 650 balanced over anything less than an Omega I any day. It's about performance, not cost.

I wasn't refering to MSRP, I was refering to the prices on the shelves. The era of statement pieces is over for the entire headphone industry, at least for now, not just for one particular technology.

I certainly am not in favour of further ghettoisation of non-electrodynamic headphones and I've never stated anything to that effect in my entire time at head-fi.

I'm also for performance, not cost, and have never been one for shiny baubles. But I do accept that I can't get the level of performance I expect from a KSC75 and a Cmoy, so will have to invest more money. But electrostatics simply aren't as expensive as you seem to assume. Only two of my electrostatics cost me above the price HD650s generally retail around, the rest for less. And while I can appriciate not everyone would enjoy the tonality, you can most certainly make an electrostatic rig that doesn't sound poo for a price comparable to a dynamic rig, it's just a question of whether one wants to bother.

 

[Zanth]

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Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif And while I can appriciate not everyone would enjoy the tonality, you can most certainly make an electrostatic rig that doesn't sound poo for a price comparable to a dynamic rig, it's just a question of whether one wants to bother.

Without a doubt! I wholeheartedly agree. This is one of the main features I would want to see in such a forum, one which emphasized really top notch high end sound via proper system matching. I'd wager that an Orpheus hooked up to an AM radio would not sound as good as a pair of KSC 35's hooked up to a fantastic amp and an equally impressive source. I think we would just need to have a few threads (or maybe just this one) to flesh out a few ground rules for a high-end forum. Some would only be interested in reading about $20k sources and 10k cables paired with an ES1 and an HE90...others might be enthralled to read comparisons between balanced HD650's and the latest Headroom Max and the HE90's with an ES1 or Aristeus. What I wouldn't want to see is someone coming in and posting: "so how can I get X amount of sound quality for Y amount of dollars?". Instead, I would want money not to ever come into it and we just really dissect the level of sound possible with headphones, as an objective quality (and subjective where necessary).

 

[003]

I had to search around for this thread because now I have something to say. Something is happening at head-fi and I don't like it. I mean just look at this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229504