[Currawong]

I'm coming to understand why people are critical of rating gear using percentages.

Going by the pictures, the power conditioning in the DAC19MK3 looks considerably more comprehensive in than in the Compass, which might go some way to explain your experiences.

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm coming to understand why people are critical of rating gear using percentages.

I belong to this group. Reviewing hifi is way too subjective for percentages to be used IMO.

Maybe my DAC19MkIII will arrive to my closest customs office tomorrow. I really hope so. The wait has been long.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

For your sake Patu I hope that tomorrow brings the long awaited device. Your patience has been admirable to say the least.

Peete.

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif For your sake Patu I hope that tomorrow brings the long awaited device. Your patience has been admirable to say the least. Peete.

It's finally here!

Arrived safely and in one piece. No scratches or any other marks either. I already opened it and everything looks just like in website. I won't give any comments about the SQ at this point. I can only say that first impressions are very good.

 

[K3cT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm coming to understand why people are critical of rating gear using percentages.

I can somewhat agree but sometimes, it really helps to put things in perspective.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I either use 0.8.3 foobar or else my iriver h120 optical output, both are a bit worse than wavelab asio in their own way, wavelab asio has more fullness but it's too expensive and not convenient whatsoever, I do not recommend it as a media player. I wouldn't worry about the sentiment thing, I think it was done deliberately to try to get the most analyzing detail out of the dac19mk3. Should be fine with most setups unless your headphones tend to sound sterile, then heavy sounding cables should be a good way to improve vocals. Maybe the compass is 50% of the dac19mk3 in certain circumstances, but I wouldn't say so in mine. Anyway what Kingwa considers 50% is certainly different from me, I think of the grading system in the public schools I went to. 50% would be a really bad F, 75% is a passable C . If you really don't upgrade things like transport, file quality, cables, detailed headphones, but you have very clean power to help out the compass PSU, it might not be worth it to upgrade to the dac19mk3.

I would bet that you'd be surprised at how much of a difference improving your transport would make. I'm not quite sure of what to infer from your review until you have a chance to use the compass and dac19 with a proper transport.

Maybe I'm overstating the importance of the transport, but I wouldn't be surprised if your dac19 is being bottlenecked.

 

[haloxt]

I think so too, but I'm not really in the mood right now to buy a real transport. They cost too much and I want the same functionality as an iriver h120 (hard drive) but with audio quality in mind. I might upgrade the optical cable but probably not because I keep hearing coax is better.

I am kind of interested in the usb/optical converter Kingwa's designing ^^ but blah I am broke now.

 

[Patu]

My transport is a very cheap solution also. About $20 sound card with cmediadrivers so it has bitperfect output. I'm not a big believer for differences between transports but maybe I should try some higher end source. I won't leave my computer though so it must be some kind of a sound card.

About the SQ of DAC19Mk3. At this point (probably too early to say anything meaningful yet) I would say that this DAC is extremely faithful for the recording. If you have soft sounding recording then it sounds soft and if there's more sparkle and energy then it's there also. It doesn't add anything artificially like sharpen the sound or stuff like that. It has only 10 hours now so I'm waiting if breaking in will differ the sound.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would bet that you'd be surprised at how much of a difference improving your transport would make. I'm not quite sure of what to infer from your review until you have a chance to use the compass and dac19 with a proper transport. Maybe I'm overstating the importance of the transport, but I wouldn't be surprised if your dac19 is being bottlenecked.

Agreed 100%. Transport quality is crucial to getting the max from your DAC (whatever it is).

The Audio-gd CD7 vs the Vanguard CDM12 Pro (top loader) made that abundantly clear with my Reference 1 dac. I was/am shocked by the difference. My computer used as a transport ( Auzen Prelude COAX out/ bit perfect) isn't even close to the CD7 which was a big surprise. The CDM12 Pro was slightly better than the computer but Kingwa told me matter of factly the RE1 needed a better T.

Am I glad I heeded his advice even though it cost me another fair chunk of
change.

Peete.


PS Congrats Patu.....the wait is over

 

[moodyrn]

Any of the oppo disc players would be a good low cost solution on a pretty good transport. They have been known for having good analog outputs for the price, but they have received very high praise as a transport. I used to have one, and I did notice an improvement compared to other players I had when using any of the digital outs. They probably won' be anywhere close to a cd7, but you will have a very good transport for the price. You'll also get a decent sacd, and dvd-A player as a bonus.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed 100%. Transport quality is crucial to getting the max from your DAC (whatever it is). The Audio-gd CD7 vs the Vanguard CDM12 Pro (top loader) made that abundantly clear with my Reference 1 dac. I was/am shocked by the difference. My computer used as a transport ( Auzen Prelude COAX out/ bit perfect) isn't even close to the CD7 which was a big surprise. The CDM12 Pro was slightly better than the computer but Kingwa told me matter of factly the RE1 needed a better T. Am I glad I heeded his advice even though it cost me another fair chunk of change. Peete. PS Congrats Patu.....the wait is over

Yeah, I too was surprised, and actually a little depressed, to discover just how significant the transport can be. It is way more significant than I think a lot of people would intuitively believe. It's also one of the main reasons I've resisted going with a computer-as-source setup until now...

haloxt, while I really do understand your desire to avoid spending more money, given how much you've already invested, I just don't think it makes sense not to upgrade your transport.

If you're going to put all that money into a dac, you really want to allow it to do it's thing and the Iriver is just not gonna cut it, IMO.

To be honest, you'd be better off with a 'worse' DAC and a 'better' transport for the same money, in terms of overall sound quality.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moodyrn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any of the oppo disc players would be a good low cost solution on a pretty good transport. They have been known for having good analog outputs for the price, but they have received very high praise as a transport. I used to have one, and I did notice an improvement compared to other players I had when using any of the digital outs. They probably won' be anywhere close to a cd7, but you will have a very good transport for the price. You'll also get a decent sacd, and dvd-A player as a bonus.

While getting a cheap dvd- or multiformat player as transport is not necessarily a bad idea, I don't know if I could recommend an Oppo. At least, the Oppo DV-970HD was tested as having very high jitter. I tested my Oppo DV-971DT as a transport against 3 other budget dvd players I own and certainly when hooked up to the Compass the Oppo performed rather poorly with a murky, diffuse and rolled-off sound signature. I expect the DAC-19, which doesn't have extensive DSP either, to be similarly sensitive to transport quality.
Perhaps Oppo fixed this jitter problem in their later models, I haven't heard anything about that. But personally I've got the best results yet out of a bottom-of-the-line Sony dvd player. No DVD-A or SACD compatibility there though.

 

[iszatso]

From the audio-gd website reference jitter on the DAC-19..
" Uses DIR9001 to take the demodulation, the DIR9001 fixed Jitter value is as low as 50PS, which is the lowest Jitter demodulation chip at present, while CS8414/8412 Jitter value is as high as 200PS. "
Have received tracking number for the dac-19 to pair with the c-2c, replacing the mf v-dac. As I use optical out to the dac from either the macbook or the iriver h20 will be interesting to see the sound signature differences. I have found with the v-dac and the c-2c that cabling makes a big difference for me, went back to the blue jean cables for the connection from the cable pro reflection v2 cables as it sounds better to me more clear highs and defined delivery. I am finding cables have a big effect on prat, seems to me like the prat is more controlled with the blue jean cables. Remember i am a neophyte commenting on things that still allude description in the subtelity of differences. Seems like I keep the d7000's on longer with the changed cables. I have a denon 2902 will try the optical out with some sacd's with the dac 19 and the c2c with different cabling. looking forward to more comments on the dac19 feeding different headphone amps.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iszatso /img/forum/go_quote.gif From the audio-gd website reference jitter on the DAC-19.. " Uses DIR9001 to take the demodulation, the DIR9001 fixed Jitter value is as low as 50PS, which is the lowest Jitter demodulation chip at present, while CS8414/8412 Jitter value is as high as 200PS. "

Oh, it's a good receiver chip alright. The same one as used in the Compass, by the way, which is why I'm suspecting a similar sensitivity to jitter. (And it's easy to get too focussed on jitter. It's just one aspect of many that determines a transport's quality.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by iszatso /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have received tracking number for the dac-19 to pair with the c-2c, replacing the mf v-dac. As I use optical out to the dac from either the macbook or the iriver h20 will be interesting to see the sound signature differences. I have found with the v-dac and the c-2c that cabling makes a big difference for me, went back to the blue jean cables for the connection from the cable pro reflection v2 cables as it sounds better to me more clear highs and defined delivery. I am finding cables have a big effect on prat, seems to me like the prat is more controlled with the blue jean cables. Remember i am a neophyte commenting on things that still allude description in the subtelity of differences. Seems like I keep the d7000's on longer with the changed cables. I have a denon 2902 will try the optical out with some sacd's with the dac 19 and the c2c with different cabling. looking forward to more comments on the dac19 feeding different headphone amps. [/COLOR]

Should be interesting finding the best transport and cables for it. I gather Mac-based (and Linux) computers have a distinct edge over Windows software when it comes to getting a clean digital signal.

 

[haloxt]

roy jones, are you familiar with the iriver h120/140 as transport? What transports do you think are much better? But I want to wait a year or two and see if they ever make a popular transport with the same storage capability and small size as the h120.