[K3cT]

More impressions needed for sure. I hope the sound is not as digital/sterile as the description of this DAC seems to imply.

 

[haloxt]

I don't think the description means to say it is digital/sterile, "doesn't produce charming sound" is probably just another way to say it doesn't sound exceptionally musical. The "warm" impression sounds good to me, I think it rules out the possibility of it sounding digital at least.

 

[K3cT]

Early impressions are positive I agree but this line Delivers a neutral and monitor like sound with well expressed dynamic details. really led me to my original opinion.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think the description means to say it is digital/sterile, "doesn't produce charming sound" is probably just another way to say it doesn't sound exceptionally musical. The "warm" impression sounds good to me, I think it rules out the possibility of it sounding digital at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Early impressions are positive I agree but this line Delivers a neutral and monitor like sound with well expressed dynamic details. really led me to my original opinion.

I guess the latter description is how Kingwa likes to describe it now. The "charming sound" is probably his way of describing coloured sound, because he believes this is easier on the ear when the equipment and/or the musical material are not of the highest quality. Another one of his analogies is "Coca-Cola" vs. "clear water", where the Compass DAC, for example, is Coca-Cola and the DAC-19 would be clear water. So the intention is for the DAC-19 to be uncoloured and neutral. Whether that's sterile or not will partly depend on your musical taste, but mostly on the colouration that your amp and especially headphones will bring. But I doubt the intention is for it to sound analytical or unmusical.

EDIT: I think I am repeating myself. I guess it's time for other people to tell us what it really sounds like.

 

[K3cT]

Indeed, Drosera. I think at this point onwards, I'm arguing based on semantics and that's not nice.

Oh well, keep the impressions coming folks.

 

[Wenglish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3cT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Early impressions are positive I agree but this line Delivers a neutral and monitor like sound with well expressed dynamic details. really led me to my original opinion.

In one of Kingwa's e-mails to me he said something akin to: Bad recordings ("MP3s and bad vinyls") would sound thin and have less bass. Good recordings would sound good. Not colored, not overly warm bass/rolled off highs/etc, but just a very neutral sound. Basically, the DAC would do its intended job--reproduce the music faithfully, without modifying it into something else.

Of course, that could go either way. It could still sound "digital" regardless or good recordings could really outstrip bad ones. Which is why we need more impressions. Please guys? With sprinkles on top?

 

[Currawong]

Though it's not entirely a fair comparison, Kingwa describes the Reference 1 similarly, which has NO colouration. It's difficult to describe something that isn't there. I've found though that pro-audio oriented DACs, such as the Lavry DA-10 and Apogee Duet could be described as dry, sterile and digital sounding. The PCM1704UK chip has a reputation for less digital-sounding reconstruction of the music. However, the rest of the electronics are important for this to be carried through. What Kingwa means, I imagine, is that he has "voiced" the output circuits so that the sound comes through tonally neutral and as un-coloured as possible.

 

[tim3320070]

I feel a digital sound character can be a "color" as well, not to mention distortion- none of these are present (to my ear) in the Ref-1 and I would guess, for the most part, to the 19MK3 as well, as it shares similar electronics (if much more simplified). Aren't we all looking for clean and clear reproduction- "warm" or "bright" presentations are not true reproductions, yes?

 

[Skorpitarius]

Nothing coca-cola about my Compass ... very neutral ... I am not using colored headphone like Sennheiser ... using very analytical headphones .
Source material is more relevant IMHO .




Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess the latter description is how Kingwa likes to describe it now. The "charming sound" is probably his way of describing coloured sound, because he believes this is easier on the ear when the equipment and/or the musical material are not of the highest quality. Another one of his analogies is "Coca-Cola" vs. "clear water", where the Compass DAC, for example, is Coca-Cola and the DAC-19 would be clear water. So the intention is for the DAC-19 to be uncoloured and neutral. Whether that's sterile or not will partly depend on your musical taste, but mostly on the colouration that your amp and especially headphones will bring. But I doubt the intention is for it to sound analytical or unmusical. EDIT: I think I am repeating myself. I guess it's time for other people to tell us what it really sounds like.

 

[Bostonears]

My DAC19-MK3 is now in the house! Stone cold out of the box, I plugged it into my system, then set my Squeezebox to pick a random song. It took all of about five seconds for my jaw to hit the floor. The best one-word description I can think of for the DAC-10MK3 sound is grainless. The highs extend all the way out, but there's no trace of harshness or strain. It's like a tube DAC without the coloration. (I get plenty of coloration from my 2A3 tube amp, so I don't need any from a DAC.)

Unfortunately, I'm leaving town early in the morning for a few days, so I won't have a chance to listen more to the DAC-19MK3 until I'm back. I'll let it burn in over the weekend, and I'll probably listen to it for another week or two before posting a review in a separate thread.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skorpitarius /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nothing coca-cola about my Compass ... very neutral ... I am not using colored headphone like Sennheiser ... using very analytical headphones . Source material is more relevant IMHO .

Depends on the reference really (pun not really intentional), but compared to the Reference One and presumably also the DAC-19, the Compass DAC with Earth is still clearly a little coloured and warm. Not a bad thing at all, IMO, and it's all relative anyways.

 

[Skorpitarius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif Depends on the reference really (pun not really intentional), but compared to the Reference One and presumably also the DAC-19, the Compass DAC with Earth is still clearly a little coloured and warm. Not a bad thing at all, IMO, and it's all relative anyways.

Well, I read unfavorable reviews of the other 2 opas . I am curious to hear Reference 1 and DAC-19 via C2C or whatever .
I don't care for tube sound, overall ... years ago, I had a tubed preamp for the set up I had , a Proton amp and Klipsch speakers and the distortion and coloration as well as reduction of low-end was annoying and I couldn't not hear it ... tubes do nice things for vocals/female especially but I think it'd be more annoying for my ears with a tube headamp or DAC . Don't care for the heat that they put out, either ....much less breakdowns / replacing, yada yada ...

 

[K3cT]

The other OPAs are not bad per se but they add their own flavors more strongly to the music. I found the Moon to match badly with an HD600, making it sounds muddy and bottom-heavy.

The Earth is the best compromise.

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skorpitarius /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I read unfavorable reviews of the other 2 opas . I am curious to hear Reference 1 and DAC-19 via C2C or whatever . I don't care for tube sound, overall ...

Yeah, the other OPA's are definitely far more coloured. Both Sun and Moon suffer from a relative hole-in-the-middle and especially with vintage AKG headphones where the most important strong point is the beautiful midrange, that's exactly what you don't want. Earth is a whole lot closer to the neutral ideal.

I share your problems with tube sound. It would be nice if the choice of proper hi-end SS headphone amps could be expanded a bit.

BTW, were you born at midnight on the 22nd November?

 

[sandchak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Though it's not entirely a fair comparison, Kingwa describes the Reference 1 similarly, which has NO colouration. It's difficult to describe something that isn't there. I've found though that pro-audio oriented DACs, such as the Lavry DA-10 and Apogee Duet could be described as dry, sterile and digital sounding. The PCM1704UK chip has a reputation for less digital-sounding reconstruction of the music. However, the rest of the electronics are important for this to be carried through. What Kingwa means, I imagine, is that he has "voiced" the output circuits so that the sound comes through tonally neutral and as un-coloured as possible.

I agree with Curra, that the description to some extent is unfair as both REF1 and DAC19MK3 is described as non-colored, given the difference in design and components used, the level of neutrality or non-coloration vastly differs between both. I have the Compass and earlier version DAC19Se and I will be getting my REf1 this month.

I had some corropondence with Kingwa on his various DACs and this is what he had to say :

Quote:

But in our products have two character , 1 is Neutral and high fidelity, you can easy to hear any change of cable and CD transmit and record of disc. These product inc DAC Reference One/Two, DAC8,DAC19. other is much musical but still have fine dynamic and detail, it is DAC3SE. Compass is between upon ,the dynamic and detail and musical is less than upon DAC3, the Neutral and high fidelity also less than upon option 1..