[Sherwood]

I think the top can be reached in headphones and amps.  No idea what the top is for sources.  I love mine, but I think better can be had.

 

[macdevign]

  I think the top can be reached in headphones and amps.  No idea what the top is for sources.  I love mine, but I think better can be had.

I think the "top" is pretty subjective and is dependent on individual's preference of sound signature. What is top to one individual may not be top to another

. Some may prefer Grado's sound while others prefer ortho sound, some prefer warm sound while others like bright sound, some will love upfront vocal whereas some like recessed vocal so that instrument is more forward and portray a huge soundstage. PRaT preference can also varies for individual. Sound preference may even change with age

...

 

[Sherwood]

I think the "top" is pretty subjective and is dependent on individual's preference of sound signature.

I don't agree. Headphones are transducers, and their performance and fidelity is measurable. Amplifiers are also measurable, if somewhat more abstract. While there is certainly room for individual preference as to what you enjoy, the best headphone objectively is the one with the greatest fidelity to the signal. Fidelity is not subjective.

 

[ToddTheMetalGod]

I don't agree. Headphones are transducers, and their performance and fidelity is measurable. Amplifiers are also measurable, if somewhat more abstract. While there is certainly room for individual preference as to what you enjoy, the best headphone objectively is the one with the greatest fidelity to the signal. Fidelity is not subjective.

But fidelity isn't enjoyment, and unless you're recording, mixing, or mastering fidelity is never really necessary (desired by some, yes, but desire isn't a need). Most people also don't know how to properly measure or even read complex measurements of transducers (such as CSD plots).

 

[SilverEars]

But fidelity isn't enjoyment, and unless you're recording, mixing, or mastering fidelity is never really necessary (desired by some, yes, but desire isn't a need). Most people also don't know how to properly measure or even read complex measurements of transducers (such as CSD plots).

Fidelity can be enjoyed as this website proves it.  I personally am one that is quite picky about how I enjoy music.  I am more so than I used to be now that I've moved onto better gear.  I've reached a point where I will only listen to music with my best headphone.  
 
With the right gear, I enjoy a new recording many times more when I hear much higher fidelity coming out of my gear.  I personally think it's the hobby itself, looking for the setup that wows you like the enthusiasts that like to tweak things to bring out the best performance and that gets them going.
 
I think of this as enjoyment, yet other may think of this as boring.  

 

[macdevign]

I don't agree. Headphones are transducers, and their performance and fidelity is measurable. Amplifiers are also measurable, if somewhat more abstract. While there is certainly room for individual preference as to what you enjoy, the best headphone objectively is the one with the greatest fidelity to the signal. Fidelity is not subjective.

I think the sum is greater than its parts

. Having excellent measurement and performance of each audio gear/equipment does not assure that  the system taken as a whole produce the sound that the listener will like

.  It really about system synergy and also if the resultant  system sound  produced is the sound the listeners will enjoy regardless of price and measurement.  I think this hobby is not just about having some good measurement and fidelity alone, many factors need to be considered

( how do we measure warmness, brightness, soundstaging, imaging, clarity, and how do we tell  enough is enough ? I think only the listeners can decide how much of the "good things" is enough for them ).  
 
For example, a tube-based headphone amplifier could warm up the sound to be bit more natural and analogue, albeit with some fuzziness to the detail, and some listeners may enjoy that type of sound. Some listeners may not like  overwhelming detail. Some prefer solid state sound . Some prefer less accurate sound and like colored sound as long as they enjoy it ( eg Audio technica w3000anv , fostex th900). Some find neutral and accurate sound boring , and like the highly musical yet colored sound of Graham Slee ultra linear head amplifier.
 
Grado is known to produce headphones by ears than by measurement, and may not have the best fidelity but yet some listeners enjoy its sound.
 
And what is often the best headphones and best equipment may not always be the best for the listeners. For example, my best headphone I like foremost  is Audio Technica w1000x, and it is not even the audio technica's flagship headphone. It sounds warm and fuzzy and yet it suits me better than the crystal-clear sound of w3000anv and w5000.  Moreover  to me  Sennheiser hd800 sounds average despite having some of the best measurement and fostex th900 fare better because I prefer its sound signature.
 
So what is fidelity and sound performance in the midst of what I mention ? 

   I guess only the listeners know what is good for them.

 

[Zoom25]

  Fidelity can be enjoyed as this website proves it.  I personally am one that is quite picky about how I enjoy music.  I am more so than I used to be now that I've moved onto better gear.  I've reached a point where I will only listen to music with my best headphone.  
 
With the right gear, I enjoy a new recording many times more when I hear much higher fidelity coming out of my gear.  I personally think it's the hobby itself, looking for the setup that wows you like the enthusiasts that like to tweak things to bring out the best performance and that gets them going.
 
I think of this as enjoyment, yet other may think of this as boring.  

+1. For music I have always been picky but have maybe gotten a bit more pickier over the years. No more multiple headphones. Just one decent one that can do them all right. Took me a bit of time to find one after going through a few planars.
 
For gaming, movies and TV shows, I can let the sound slide a bit…as long as it's comfortable and convenient.

 

[ToddTheMetalGod]

Fidelity can be enjoyed as this website proves it.  I personally am one that is quite picky about how I enjoy music.  I am more so than I used to be now that I've moved onto better gear.  I've reached a point where I will only listen to music with my best headphone.  

With the right gear, I enjoy a new recording many times more when I hear much higher fidelity coming out of my gear.  I personally think it's the hobby itself, looking for the setup that wows you like the enthusiasts that like to tweak things to bring out the best performance and that gets them going.

I think of this as enjoyment, yet other may think of this as boring.  

Can be, is the key. Many people don't look for accuracy, they look for traits that are unnatural... such as extra treble/bass, overly large soundstage, extremely rough treble, overly boomy mid bass, etc. In fact, some people can't even tell the difference between high and low quality sound, all they care about is the music. I mean, if you want complete accuracy just go to a ton of concerts and wear earplugs... why even bother with the expensive equipment as it's just reducing the true quality?

I think part of this hobby is just ego. I'm not saying it is to you, but to some people anything expensive is a competition. "Oh your headphones suck, mine have way more fidelity!" Stuff like that. I don't really like going out of my way to see concerts, having to be afraid that the artist may not perform as well as their recordings, and being deafened by loud volume... so speakers/headphones are a decent alternative. But most people like concerts, so I don't understand why they don't put their money into tickets. It's like they enjoy being snobs about sound quality more than the music itself and the gear is a way to do so.

Edit: I guess for artists you can't see, it makes sense. But really, how much fidelity do you need. After a while no more detail is presented, it just ends up being presented differently... it might measure better but who gives a damn. It's about enjoyment in the end.

 

[macdevign]

Can be, is the key. Many people don't look for accuracy, they look for traits that are unnatural... such as extra treble/bass, overly large soundstage, extremely rough treble, overly boomy mid bass, etc. In fact, some people can't even tell the difference between high and low quality sound, all they care about is the music. I mean, if you want complete accuracy just go to a ton of concerts and wear earplugs... why even bother with the expensive equipment as it's just reducing the true quality?

I think part of this hobby is just ego. I'm not saying it is to you, but to some people anything expensive is a competition. "Oh your headphones suck, mine have way more fidelity!" Stuff like that. I don't really like going out of my way to see concerts, having to be afraid that the artist may not perform as well as their recordings, and being deafened by loud volume... so speakers/headphones are a decent alternative. But most people like concerts, so I don't understand why they don't put their money into tickets. It's like they enjoy being snobs about sound quality more than the music itself and the gear is a way to do so.

Agreed with you.
 
This hobby to some may not even be about music, it could be ego and need to "feel good" owning some expensive headphones or equipment, or some just like to collect expensive flagship headphones for the sake of collecting.  Different people indulge in this hobby for different reason, and may not always be the obvious and rational reason. Some like to tinker with gear, equipment and mix and match them just to experiment and to satisfy their curiosity.  Or that this hobby provide others with hope and longing in the community. Some may find it more "meaningful" to spend money on equipment/music rather than anything else. Some use this hobby to forget their unhappiness, and as reason of being.  This hobby surely has different purpose and meaning for different individual.

 

[mulveling]

We all have an ego, even (perhaps especially) the folks that try to invent some sort of moral high-ground for being "all about the music, first and foremost!". I love music and gear, each a lot. Damn I really love gear, but truthfully I wouldn't have maintained this level of enthusiasm for so long if there wasn't the music side of things too (all my hobbies as a kid were very 1-dimensional and quickly fell by the wayside as a result). And I'm unashamed to have more cash (realistically, probably much more) in my gear.

 

[SilverEars]

Can be, is the key. Many people don't look for accuracy, they look for traits that are unnatural... such as extra treble/bass, overly large soundstage, extremely rough treble, overly boomy mid bass, etc. In fact, some people can't even tell the difference between high and low quality sound, all they care about is the music. I mean, if you want complete accuracy just go to a ton of concerts and wear earplugs... why even bother with the expensive equipment as it's just reducing the true quality?

I think part of this hobby is just ego. I'm not saying it is to you, but to some people anything expensive is a competition. "Oh your headphones suck, mine have way more fidelity!" Stuff like that. I don't really like going out of my way to see concerts, having to be afraid that the artist may not perform as well as their recordings, and being deafened by loud volume... so speakers/headphones are a decent alternative. But most people like concerts, so I don't understand why they don't put their money into tickets. It's like they enjoy being snobs about sound quality more than the music itself and the gear is a way to do so.

Edit: I guess for artists you can't see, it makes sense. But really, how much fidelity do you need. After a while no more detail is presented, it just ends up being presented differently... it might measure better but who gives a damn. It's about enjoyment in the end.

The products in this website is more of a niche market, there is not a whole lot of margin in terms of volume.  You are right to say majority do not invest in high fidelity as the Beats product market share shows.  What this shows that what is more important is marketing and image, and subjective preference when it comes to the majority.  
 
Yes, there is ego, and it's wrong way to go about it.  All it does is create confusion and hurt the community by pushing pricing and create more of a confusion for the newbie audiophile.  I believe a true enthusiast is one that looks for gear for the sake of high fidelity in an objective manner, nothing superficial stearing their judgement.
 
I'm sure the market for high fidelty is becoming better known and is growing.  Possibly there will be much larger market for true high fidelity products in the future.

 

[ToddTheMetalGod]

I'm guilty of trying to use it to forget unhappiness, perhaps it's a combination of my frustration at my total lack of creativity and partly trying to find beauty in something other than women ;p. Also the cons of concerts in my opinion.

My computer hobby also fell to the wayside now that I game less, so audio gives me something to think about and do. I'm still into performance computers, but more to donate computing time to scientific research projects.

 

[Billheiser]

...(Heard a tune I thought was fantastic last night in - of all places - a bar but no-one on either side of the bar could tell me the actual name of the tune or who sang it. Frustrating, particularly as I dont listen to radio stations any more and I rarely listen to anything that's charting)

Very handy - the free app Soundhound for your smartphone. Would have identified that song and shown you the lyrics. I think the Shazam app does same too.

 

[Focker]

  We all have an ego, even (perhaps especially) the folks that try to invent some sort of moral high-ground for being "all about the music, first and foremost!". I love music and gear, each a lot. Damn I really love gear, but truthfully I wouldn't have maintained this level of enthusiasm for so long if there wasn't the music side of things too (all my hobbies as a kid were very 1-dimensional and quickly fell by the wayside as a result). And I'm unashamed to have more cash (realistically, probably much more) in my gear.

 
Moral high ground? I'm curious why you say it that way. What other point is there to all of this? Isn't the idea to get as close to the music as possible? 

 

[Focker]

  Agreed with you.
 
This hobby to some may not even be about music, it could be ego and need to "feel good" owning some expensive headphones or equipment, or some just like to collect expensive flagship headphones for the sake of collecting.  Different people indulge in this hobby for different reason, and may not always be the obvious and rational reason. 

 
Completely agree...and I'll even take it a step further: There are those who also seek out gear that can be justified as "better" than other gear. Many people are message board warriors, and if you have gear that you can justify with things like FR graphs or other "facts", you can beat down those who disagree with you or dispute your arguments. It happens all the time, and audio gear is just one way that this sort of behavior manifests.