[Quadman]

  What's your source? Please could you try daphile (www.daphile.com) and see if you notice any difference. It is a dedicated Linux audio player that can be loaded from a USB stick to run in memory. Often referred to as a 'poor man's jplay'.

I use HQPayer thru roon to upsample, currently using the 2s filters and CPU load on my i7-4790 CPU is only mid-20's at DSD512.  Once I get my projects out of the way, I may load daphile and play with it a bit.  Here's a screen shot of task manager.

 

[martyn73]

Hi,

Please can anyone advise if the X20 would provide an improvement over my Musical Fidelity MX-DAC which is connected via USB to my PC and by XLR cables to my Stax amplifier (SRM 727II and SR-007A headphones)? The MX-DAC can extract more detail from tracks than my Chord Mojo, but I'd like to avoid a strong treble.

I think the MX-DAC uses a quite cheap TI Burr Brown DAC which outputs dual mono mode. Is XLR really necessary?

Thanks,

Martyn

 

[ginetto61]

 
Hi, 
Please can anyone advise if the X20 would provide an improvement over my Musical Fidelity MX-DAC which is connected via USB to my PC and by XLR cables to my Stax amplifier (SRM 727II and SR-007A headphones)? The MX-DAC can extract more detail from tracks than my Chord Mojo, but I'd like to avoid a strong treble.
I think the MX-DAC uses a quite cheap TI Burr Brown DAC which outputs dual mono mode. Is XLR really necessary?
Thanks,
Martyn

 
Hi ! maybe you have already tried a good power supply with the MX-DAC.  
If not I would look for something linear with a R-core transformer.
The fact that it has more detail is a very good thing in my opinion. 
Maybe the strong treble (distorted ?)  is just a power supply issue.
Bye,  gino

 

[Triplefun]

Hi,

Please can anyone advise if the X20 would provide an improvement over my Musical Fidelity MX-DAC which is connected via USB to my PC and by XLR cables to my Stax amplifier (SRM 727II and SR-007A headphones)? The MX-DAC can extract more detail from tracks than my Chord Mojo, but I'd like to avoid a strong treble.

I think the MX-DAC uses a quite cheap TI Burr Brown DAC which outputs dual mono mode. Is XLR really necessary?

Thanks,

Martyn

have you tried pc up sampling to DSD.  Also give daphile with dsd upsampling a go which you can load from a USB stick without over writing the PC. Both options will provide a more transparent bass and tamed treble.

 

[MKHunt]

 
I use HQPayer thru roon to upsample, currently using the 2s filters and CPU load on my i7-4790 CPU is only mid-20's at DSD512.  Once I get my projects out of the way, I may load daphile and play with it a bit.  Here's a screen shot of task manager.
 

 
Quadman, a question I didn't see answered on another forum nor here:  With the DIYINHK board, does PCM and DSD work properly?  I have the board as well and my Gustard arrives today (non USB, snagged for $640) but the pinouts provided earlier in the thread suggest that through I2S HDMI that the channels would be reversed and through the PCIE connector that PCM would not work at all.
 
Thanks for the hard work!

 

[Quadman]

   
Quadman, a question I didn't see answered on another forum nor here:  With the DIYINHK board, does PCM and DSD work properly?  I have the board as well and my Gustard arrives today (non USB, snagged for $640) but the pinouts provided earlier in the thread suggest that through I2S HDMI that the channels would be reversed and through the PCIE connector that PCM would not work at all.
 
Thanks for the hard work!

I assume the nonusb dac still has the PCIe slot?  If you are going to try to go HDMI then you will need a card with a LVDS chip on it.  Something like this ( http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/interfaces/hdmi-to-i2s-module-p-10754.html ). Simon has used this one when he ran his Wave I/O card via HDMI.  I believe he goes USB from PC to wave I/O, then very short high quality wire I2S out of wave i/o to audio phonics card i2s and then he used a blank solderable HDMI plugs and soldered the appropriate wires in gustards order and plugged that into the gustards HDMi port.  Ultimately he moved the wave i/o inside and used the pcie slot and reported a better more transparent sound.
 
I never tried the HDMI method, mostly due to Simon's comments on it vs. the PCIe direct method.  The way I have mine currently wired I cannot play PCM, only DSD which I am fine with since I use HQplayer and upsample all music to DSD anyway and now DSD512 and why would anyone want to listen to lower rez?  Even some tidal ACC tracks sound remarkable at DSD512.  Simon posted a schematic photo of the PCIe slot I2S lines somewhere further back in this forum maybe in the high 30 page count or early 40 page count.  Depending when your dac was made, and if new very recently then, the schematic may be correct as is.  Simon had to reverse B7 and B9, Mine made maybe 6 weeks later was exactly as the schematic.  Newer ones, who knows as gustard makes changes as they go.
 
I now feel pretty confident on the stability of DSD512 playback as I have gone several days with almost zero noise and then the noise is noted not long after re-powering the dac up (and the clock) and I get a few whistles/ringing mixed in with the music.  Once the dac/clock has had power for a few hours the noise goes away.  Those clocks like constant power so my advice is to leave the dac on at all times, unless you are working on it.  Some of the things I discovered at DSD512 playback; your connection between the I2S holes on the PCIe and your wires must be VERY good any looseness will cause noise to occur (I cut up a old credit card to fit the PCIe slot and added 3 small pieces of masking tape for additional thickness, inserted in PCIe after wires are in and this puts some pressure on the wires for better connection integrety), keep the cover on the dac, which means your i2s wires need to be really short 50mm or so, use a ground for each i2s line so there is some return path (also short).  Ground connection for the 5Vdc usb handshake and the 3.3 Vdc DSD connection has to be at pin A3, if they are not BOTH at pin A3 the dac won't lock on a signal or switch to DSD mode.  I suggest separate PSU's for the DIYinHK 3.3V supply and 3.3V DSD lines, I use the 5V off the DIY card next to the USB in to get my 5V handshake so the dac knows USB input.  That DIY 512 card is POWER HUNGRY you need a decent supply that can do 1A minimum and you will probably also need a fan on the heat sinks to keep things cool.  My new big 2A capable PSU was hitting 135 degree F on the heat sink, thats about 57 degree C, thats hot.  I have a 40mm fan blowing across the sink now.
 
Love DSD512.  Next project will be to solder a 100Mhz clock near the dac chips on the output board, reports are this improves things even more.  In preparation for this I de-soldered my custom coax cable and installed the stock coax usb cable.  Listening yesterday I noted a loss of transparency to the music.  Piano/keyboards which I think are just stunning at 512 lost some of the magic with the stock cable.  The clock near the chips eliminates the coax cable and is supposed to kick transparency up another notch.  Not sure when I'll get to that as next couple of weekends are pretty busy, but that stock coax cable may push me to do sooner than later.

 

[MKHunt]

If the dac were only for music, I would definitely go the internal route you did.  Unfortunately, the Gustard will be my primary converter for all my PC audio from my main workstation (SMSL M8 will now go to my HTPC which, ironically, has the nicer speakers.  I need both PCM for system volume as well as DSD.  For my 512, I'll be using JRiver MC22.  I tired the demo of HQPlayer, and with the M8 and my headphones I could definitely hear a difference, but I'm not sure if it's worth the money for me until I have a more resolving headamp. I have a Nuforce HA-200 coming, and I've rebiased my Little Dot around C3Gs and 6AS7Gs.  We'll see what that does.
 
That makes me glad I spent the dough on the audiophonics board and splurged for the shipping to the USA.  Sounds like that might be the best solution for my needs.  I'll be using the DIYinHK dual 1.5A board for power for that and the audiophonics board.  Sounds like I'll want to plan on mounting the transistors on a larger heatsink.
 
I'd love to hear how your clock mod goes.  If there's power right there on the board, that would be even sweeter. 
 
I doubt the non-USB version is without the PCIe slot (or at least the header) since that would require production of another PCB.  I can update this post later with my findings once UPS delivers my dac (out for delivery atm) and I open it up for the AC power mods.

 

[Quadman]

  If the dac were only for music, I would definitely go the internal route you did.  Unfortunately, the Gustard will be my primary converter for all my PC audio from my main workstation (SMSL M8 will now go to my HTPC which, ironically, has the nicer speakers.  I need both PCM for system volume as well as DSD.  For my 512, I'll be using JRiver MC22.  I tired the demo of HQPlayer, and with the M8 and my headphones I could definitely hear a difference, but I'm not sure if it's worth the money for me until I have a more resolving headamp. I have a Nuforce HA-200 coming, and I've rebiased my Little Dot around C3Gs and 6AS7Gs.  We'll see what that does.
 
That makes me glad I spent the dough on the audiophonics board and splurged for the shipping to the USA.  Sounds like that might be the best solution for my needs.  I'll be using the DIYinHK dual 1.5A board for power for that and the audiophonics board.  Sounds like I'll want to plan on mounting the transistors on a larger heatsink.
 
I'd love to hear how your clock mod goes.  If there's power right there on the board, that would be even sweeter. 
 
I doubt the non-USB version is without the PCIe slot (or at least the header) since that would require production of another PCB.  I can update this post later with my findings once UPS delivers my dac (out for delivery atm) and I open it up for the AC power mods.

That PSU is good but really it is only rated to .5 amp, the isolation transformer is .5 amp and the diode bridge is also under rated (read point 2 under features), I use it and had to put a fan on it for the DSD card to keep cool.  I replaced the transformer/choke with a .8A version and that seems okay and almost bypassed the choke instead.  Board is tight and I was unable to find a bigger heat sink that would work, hence the fan.  BTW it worked fine with the fan but I unplugged it when not listening.  Still using it. but only one side supplying the 3.3 Vdc for the DSD that is very low current draw the heat sink is cool to the touch.  Once that audiophonics card is powered it will supply 3.3 and 5V as well.
 
Good luck

 

[Martinrey]

   
The Schiit site gives a good process for Foobar on Windows
http://schiit.com/guides/dsd-setup
 
Step 1 - use https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_input_sacd/foo_input_sacd-0.8.4.zip/download
Step 2 - OK
Step 3  - OK
Step 4 - Run ASIOProxyInstall-0.8.3.exe from the extracted zip file
Step 5 - OK
Step 6 - right click " foo_input_sacd.fb2k-component" from the extracted zip file and click "install"
Step 7 - OK
Step 8 - OK
Step 9 - OK
Step 10 - set the ASIO driver to the installed Gustard XMOS driver
Step 11 - set DSD to DSD method to "SDM Type C (FP64)"
Step 12 - set PCM to DSD method to "SDM TYpe C (FP64)"
Step 13 - set fs to DSD128 for both PCM and DSD
Step 14 - OK
 
That should be all that is required. You can ignore steps 15 to 17.
Please don't hesitate to get back to me if you have any issues.
When playing the X20 should display DSD128
 
Note this can be quite demanding on a cpu.
My music server (hp 8440p with an i7 620m) runs 20%.
It gives a JRiver benchmark score of 2200 (see JRiver help menu option)
You should try and keep the cpu below 40% ?
 
Note I am using the U12 connected to the x20 using hdmi cable
This enables DSD256 which gives a noticeable improvement on DSD128.
 
And you can also use the Foobar SoX plugin to upsample all music files to 192khz
Download the Foobar "Resampler (SoX)" file
There are 3 variations as described in the following link
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,67373.0.html
Mod gives you the ability to specify which input files to resample; mod2 which files to ignore.
The discussion thread is here https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,67376.0.html
 
Note I also suggest you look at the JAM skins for Foobar - http://flipout69.deviantart.com/art/JAM-v1-3-1-407758948
You can also try the JAM 2.0 which is a bit cleaner but installs a mobile version of foobar
I have had a lot of fun using these skins
 
Alternatively drive foobar using foobarcon from your android tablet.
This is also lots of fun

Hello,
 
I have used your instructions above to listen to files ripped from my redbook cd's at DSD 128 using the Gustard X20U.  My question is, I copied flac files from HD tracks and installed them in the same folder (music) as my ripped CD's...when I play them they play back at the native FLAC rate, not DSD 128.  Do you have any idea if I need to make a settings change in foobar to upsample these flac files from HD tracks with the Gustard.
Thanks!
- Martin

 

[MKHunt]

Okay!  It's all up and.... sort of working.  I put a fan on the 5v line of the power supply blowing on it and sound comes through.
 
However, DSD in all formats sounds awful.  The DAC locks into all DSD modes but it's..... bad.  I think my I2S lines to the audiophonics board are too long.  I used the jumper cables that came with the board.  Also the makeshift HDMI cable is spliced together from test leads from an arduino.  That could be a problem even though it's only about 4 inches total length.  I have contacted BlueJeans Cable about a custom HDMI cable.  Does anybody know another way to get a HDMI cable with custom pinout?
 
The plan is to solder the audiophonics board directly to the diyinhk boards pins once I get my solder wick in.  They line up (luckily enough) except for ground and pin15 (DSD ON signal) which I will do manually.
 
If I recall, the Diyinhk board has a 5v output.  I wonder if I can take 5v from that to run the audiophonics board?  That would let me parallel the power supply leads for the diyinhk board and eliminate the fan. 
 
I'm not sure if I have the patience or skill to solder a strong hdmi cable.  I really hope the weak link is just the I2S connection and not the LVDS hdmi mess I made.

 

[Quadman]

@MKHunt Not sure on the length of the jumper cables provided, DIY told me the I2S wires should be 50mm (2 inches) or shorter, I think that they can be a bit longer but shorter is definitely better.  I suggest using pure silver wire 24-28ga for the i2s lines, voltage and grounds can be copper.  The DIY board can supply 5V out but only up to .5 amp or less (I use this as my 5v handshake on the PCIe A4).  The 5V is located next to the USB input, you will find 3 holes (for a header), the inner most one is +5V (from the usb) the center is ground (from the USB) and the one towards the edge of the board is 3.3v which is taken from your 3.3V supply as per the DIY schematic.  For the makeshift HDMI cable I remember Simon saying it was not the most robust cable but it worked.  I would also suggest using silver wire there as well for the I2S lines and copper when it is less important.  Shorter is better and contact must be excellent.
 
What are you powering the DSD512 card with?  and make absolutely certain that your 3.3 v polarity to the DSD card is correct or else you fry the xmos chip.
 
 
As an update I had no noise in 5 hours listening last night and the dac has been powered up since early Sunday afternoon, but the sound is to soft.  The stock coax misses the little details and rounds the leading edges.  So I decided I had to solder in the clock sooner than later as I hate stepping backwards.  Tonight I will solder the accusilicon clock in and since my PSU's are configured for different uses now I will use the Gustards 3.3 v supply for the clock and when time opens up convert that to a dedicated PSU with a regulator right by the clock.  I'll let it warm up for a day or so before listening.  Hopefully a very good update on Thursday.

 

[sundaramn]

Bel canto C5i vs Gustard x20
 
Hi all,
 
I have Golden ear Triton one full range speakers, Line magnetic 219ia 845 tube amp and using a Belcanto c5i as DAC only mode. I am using a WD media player and mostly playing ripped music files mp3 and FLAC.
 
I wanted to update the DAC and was originally going to buy Schiit yaggis but later bought the Gustard x20.
After 6 days of continuous break in Gustard is still behind Bel canto c5i I originally thought i am going to see lot of significant improvement from Gustard x20.
 
the Bel Canto has a very natural presentation, its not harsh, the musical instruments are nice to hear, not congested. the only thing my bel canto missing was the low end. The bass was not tight or punchy as i was expecting. 
 
the Gustard bass is better. exactly what i was looking for. So i was happy about it out of box and hoping after break in this thing is going to sound like bel canto with good bass that i was missing.
After 6 days, there were slight improvements overall with Gustard but not close to Bel Canto on any of the other aspects. 
The Bel Canto c5i is not even a dedicated DAC like Bel Canto 3.7vb from their series. I am wondering now about if i need to look for 3.7 or even 3.5 with vbs from used market.
 
If i switch to Bel canto its almost like night and day for me... the congestion are all gone. everything is clear, crisp and nice to hear.
 
Do i need to break in the gustard more?
if i try the tweaks/mode will it help?
 
Looking forward for your feedback. 
 
Thanks.

 

[sundaramn]

Also, the unit goes off by itself randomly.. 
i changed my wall plug, power cord etc, but no luck
not happening very often but still happens.. does anyone have this problem?

 

[SimonBromley]

Hey there MK
 
A standard HDMI cable will output PCM via the Audiophonics card into the X20
no problem if you want to check overall sound/digital line integrity. It's just
that the left and right stereo chanels will be inverted. If you can play PCM 384
without any issues, you should be able to get DSD 256 fine too, with a custom cable...
 
However, a standard HDMI cable did NOT work for me with DSD material, therefore
I made a short custom HDMI cable inverting the 4 necessary wires, and this played
back DSD 256 no problem at all, as well as PCM correctly inverted.
I presume you have the DIYinHK 3.3v DSD trigger output wired to P15 on the Audiophonics
card so that it will automatically switch between PCM and DSD modes.
 
However, if your DIY cable is correctly wired and playing PCM fine but not DSD, you have 
some other issue.
 
Hi sundaramn. There is NO standby setting on the X20. If it's randomly switching itself
off I think you have an issue, as power will still be being supplied to the internal boards
unless you physically switch it off using the power switch.
I've had the PCB boards out of my X20 many times and done some pretty heavy handed DIY stuff,
and never once had the X20 turn itself off. That kind of behaviour rings alarm bells for me.
Maybe there are some loose connections inside from a rough time in transit?
 
Cheers
 
Simon

 

[Quadman]

  Also, the unit goes off by itself randomly.. 
i changed my wall plug, power cord etc, but no luck
not happening very often but still happens.. does anyone have this problem?

I have to agree with Simon, if your dac is randomly shutting off something is definitely wrong.  I too have had both digital and output boards out many times and have done some pretty aggressive things to them and still have no issues at all with the dac randomly turning off.  If you saw my post on WBF and open it up (the top), visually inspect the ac lines and their contacts.  They use push on connectors on the power supply side perhaps take them off and back on again.  Also look at any soldering joints and see if anything is obvious.  Also pull the ac connector off the digital and output board and put back on again.  With out removing the boards you could not see any cold solder joints at the power connectors on the boards.  You might also want to contact your seller and tell them of the problem, just in case the unit has to go back.  This coupled with non-transparent sound tells me something is wrong, cold solder, bad component.
 
Good luck