[ProLoL]

Gave the 10Mhz clock with U16 a shot last month, feeding my AudioGD R7HE via HDMI I2S.

Sounded fine... While the U16 worked. One reboot later and it was static galore again. Back to Singxer SU-6. Will be buying AudioGD's new DI20HE, so the U16 will soon see the rubbish bin.

What psu were you using for it? a 15v 1.5a?

 

[motberg]

On one system I have a Gustard U16 feeding a Gustard A20H DAC via i2s... both bought new within the past couple months..
This results to super loud (damage-to-speakers type level) pops while playing native or resampled DSD...

You would assume they would be able to get this correct between 2 of their own devices... but.. no...

 

[ProLoL]

On one system I have a Gustard U16 feeding a Gustard A20H DAC via i2s... both bought new within the past couple months..
This results to super loud (damage-to-speakers type level) pops while playing native or resampled DSD...

You would assume they would be able to get this correct between 2 of their own devices... but.. no...

Yea wish I could use the i2s without any pops.. settled with a coax, so far so good.
I know another guy that uses the a20h with the u16, prefers using aes over i2s.

 

[PLGA]

What psu were you using for it? a 15v 1.5a?

I use a chinese ebay 12V 3A Power Supply to feed one OCXO pretty similar to the one on that picture and my WiFi modem.

 

[PLGA]

On one system I have a Gustard U16 feeding a Gustard A20H DAC via i2s... both bought new within the past couple months..
This results to super loud (damage-to-speakers type level) pops while playing native or resampled DSD...

You would assume they would be able to get this correct between 2 of their own devices... but.. no...

I feed my U16 with a SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo via USB cable and from the U16 to my Audio-gd R8 DAC via I2S with out ANY problem at all with PCM flac 44.1 files.

I dont need any more because I stream all of my music from Tidal Hi Fi. The U16 doesnt work well with MQA, it makes random noise, but I dont care about MQA, for me the quality of Tidal Hi-Fi its more than enough.

V3A firmware on my R8 and 1.6 NFB on my Gustard, just in case someone has similar set up and streams PCM 44.1 files.

 

[ProLoL]

I use a chinese ebay 12V 3A Power Supply to feed one OCXO pretty similar to the one on that picture and my WiFi modem.

I accidently quoted you instead of UsoppNoKami. I was looking to purchase the same 10m clock, contacted the seller and he says that this one requires atleast 15v 1.5a.

 

[UsoppNoKami]

I accidently quoted you instead of UsoppNoKami. I was looking to purchase the same 10m clock, contacted the seller and he says that this one requires atleast 15v 1.5a.

Spec sheet is here, 12V is fine.

 

[PLGA]

I accidently quoted you instead of UsoppNoKami. I was looking to purchase the same 10m clock, contacted the seller and he says that this one requires atleast 15v 1.5a.

I've said my OCXO is similar to the one on the picture, not the same.

You have to follow your seller's advice. What I meant was that any budget chinese LPS can feed it, just be sure on the voltage and amperes.

 

[Energy]

Energy, I am not an expert, I judge only subjectively, by my ears. As for the C16, it brought audible improvement to the U16 (transparency, definition, see-through quality of the sound), I am not that much sure about the SOtM tX-USBUltra. But I use it for both. I have another rig (Fidata NAS - SOtM sMS-200Ultra - SOtM tX-USBUltra - USB input of Denafrips Terminator - KGSS Blue Hawaii/KGSS Carbon - various Stax earspeakers). In this case the USB input of the Terminator (recent DSP board, recent firmware) beats its I2S input fed from Gustard U16/C16 combination by a significant margin. It is actually the best sound I have ever had. I have never heard an SU-6 and do not know how it compares to the U16. I have only the SU-1 which seems clearly inferior to the U16, even without the C16. I use decent China sourced cables for connecting the U16 to the C16, no expensive audio boutique.

I can concur that the Denafrips Terminator’s USB input sounds better than any LVDS input. My best guess is that I²S native signals are more prone to signal degradation as it was originally created for no longer than PCB to PCB connections. Having a lengthy signal from a DDC’s output through an HDMI cable (0.3M at best) and additional PCB traces like within Terminator, then reaching the DSP board to be routed to the D/A converter is quite the process. This is why USB is better. It is less sensitive and once reaching the DAC, it goes through the DSP board for I²S conversion and relies on a similar FIFO buffer and FPGA concept. The difference here is the IC’s and oscillators (Crystek CCHD-957) are nearby so the I²S signal reaches the D/A converter chip immediately. So even if the clocks aren’t temperature monitored or oven controlled like in the Singxer SU-6, the shorter signal path after I²S makes the most difference. Imagine a SU-6 sitting right before the R2R ladder. Anyway that’s my best idea of why. It’s very interesting to see USB input’s coming such a long way now. I know the new Holo Audio Spring 2’s USB input and reliability on a nearby femtosecond clock for conversion is also doing the same. Which one does it better has a lot to do with how well the algorithm for the FPGA is done.

Sadly I wish they included a master clock option in the SU-6 and Denafrips Terminator. Unfortunately it’s not as easy as just soldering off the clocks and throwing in a u.FL (or MCX) as it requires the FPGA to be recoded to accept the 10MHz signal. Using a clock synthesizer like SOtM sCLK-EX to synthesize 49.1520M and 45.1584M doesn’t sound like getting the best bang for your buck neither. The idea of synthesizing a clock just for it to be used a a reference and re-synthesized (by the FPGA) sounds iffy to me. And to make the matter worse that would require two different outputs from the sCLK-EX clock module unless the select pin (SEL0) is used. Personally I wouldn’t know where to wire that pin to otherwise I would configure one output to have both 49.1520M and 45.1584M so they could be switchable, leaving more outputs leftover to be used in other places.

@zeid2 A little off topic but I was planning on changing the 24MHz clock on the DSP board to a Crystek CCHD-575 24MHz. They sell them on Mouser.com now but won’t be available until November. Since the original clock is smaller it will require a converter board. I’ve done this before on a Singxer SU-1 for it’s USB Input XMOS which relies on another small 24MHz oscillator. I could always help you out.

 

[ProLoL]

Just ordered a 10m with ifi Ipower.

By the way, anyone knows why I can't 44/16 via i2s? I get only static noise from one channel on anything below 96/24.

 

[motberg]

Just ordered a 10m with ifi Ipower.

By the way, anyone knows why I can't 44/16 via i2s? I get only static noise from one channel on anything below 96/24.

I had the exact same problem with my Audio-GD R1 DAC, had to upsample everything to 384k, this sounded good but limited my playback software options.
My Audio-GD NOS7 works at 44/16 and all PCM rates, no problem
My Gustard A20H works OK with all PCM rates, serious pops with DSD (I hope I can fix this...)
My Topping D70 is OK with PCM (but that DAC sounds anemic generally with no dynamics.. will be sold)
all the above tested with i2s, 0.3M Wireworld Starlight cables.

Regarding a DAC USB input vs. i2s DDC, there were some comments years ago that the USB conversion is noisy and is benefited performed in a separate box.
In every case I tried, and my guess 80% of the comments I have read online up to now, well implemented i2s was preferred over the DAC USB .
The only exception I have first hand knowledge was my isolated Amanero USB input on the Audio-GD R1 was equal or sideways to a power-modded SU-1 via i2s.
So it seems designers are making good progress on the native USB implementations.
From what I am reading the Terminator is one of the few which have exceptional native USB, I am not sure, but seems it is Amanero based which would be interesting as Audio-GD is having some success with their isolated Amanero implementation also.

 

[wwmhf]

I am wondering how the external 10Mhz clock works with the digital input from the coax of a CD player. After a brief listening, I think U16 does not use the external clock when digital signal is from coax cable. Please correct me if my thinking is incorrect.

 

[Energy]

Regarding a DAC USB input vs. i2s DDC, there were some comments years ago that the USB conversion is noisy and is benefited performed in a separate box.
In every case I tried, and my guess 80% of the comments I have read online up to now, well implemented i2s was preferred over the DAC USB. The only exception I have first hand knowledge was my isolated Amanero USB input on the Audio-GD R1 was equal or sideways to a power-modded SU-1 via i2s.
So it seems designers are making good progress on the native USB implementations.
From what I am reading the Terminator is one of the few which have exceptional native USB, I am not sure, but seems it is Amanero based which would be interesting as Audio-GD is having some success with their isolated Amanero implementation also.

New USB implementations are now better isolated, features lower phase noise clocks, and have their I²S length much shorter than using a separate box solution. Thus a decent implemented USB can sound just as good as a slightly better implemented DDC (USB to I²S).

I am wondering how the external 10Mhz clock works with the digital input from the coax of a CD player. After a brief listening, I think U16 does not use the external clock when digital signal is from coax cable. Please correct me if my thinking is incorrect.

CD player’s coaxial output’s music not input’s music. It isn’t a DAC as it works more like a turntable. The U16’s master clock option is an coaxial input that only takes 10MHz clock signals. They cannot be used with each other as one is to pass clock signals to use a superior clock for lower jitter in music playback while the other is passing music data in audio frequencies.

 

[PeterCraig]

I wonder how many otherwise great dacs out there end up on the dac junk heap because either the USB or SPDIF hardware/software can't be upgraded. Not many dacs have I2S implemented.

I'm grateful to any manufacturer who builds and supports gear that can be upgraded (and at a fair price).

 

[motberg]

Anyone have tips on how to get DSD to play, U16 i2s to Gustard DAC, without pops?
I have recently bought U16 i2s to A20H, sounds good on PCM, but native DSD and HQPlayer conversion results at loud pops at end of file playback.