Gustard U12 USB Interface 8 Core XMOS chip

[roman410]

 
The DXIO Pro3 can be - in fact must be started with USB power leg connected - even when set for ext power.  But the SQ jumps significantly with the stock TeraDak DC-30.  Here the LH Labs Lightspeed 2G split cable is invaluable.  Just plug the power leg into any free USB port - then start playing - once the signal is detected unplug the power leg.  Takes 10 seconds.
 
One note - I tried to power the Pro3a with the 16,000mAh Li Ion battery from it;s USB port and the DXIO would not work.  The Li Ion worked fine on the Hydra Z - in the end I preferred the TeraDak X1/X2.  Never got to try the DC-30W as dumb old Audiobyte used a highly unstandard 2.3mm DC input vs the 2.5 that almost everyone else uses - like the DXIO, Wyred Remedy, Uptone Regen, etc...
 
The total cost to upgrade the 10 el-cheapo 'lytics to totl Nichicon HW's or Pannie FM's  was $11.  And about an hour of easy to reach (nice double sided case) soldering.
 
I agree the R-Core transformer is good quality (nice copper shielding touch).
 
Do you know which discretes they use - thought of trying a couple of Hynes in place.
 
Another long listening session last night - the DXIO is smoothing out nicely.  Sounds amazing.  Went through 7 of my favorite Van Morrison albums.  Ones I've heard hundreds of times - and they all sounded fresh.  New details presented - great fun.
 
Moon Dance
Avalon Sunset
A Sense of Wonder  (the 'space' on this album is a trip)
No Method, No Guru, No Teacher
Enlightenment
Common One
Poetic Champions Compose

 

I have this DXIO http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/54-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wauto-power-switch.html old version with auto switch to external power and work with  16,000mAh Li Ion battery without problem. I have 2 Li Ion batteries connect together. First is charging from USB charger connect to wall, and first one charge second from take USB power to drive DXIO an my Squeezebox touch. This way I believe have cleaner and not uninterrupted USB power. Also try powered DXIO from  Squeezebox touch USB port  and cheep 5V wall wart power supply and battery give my best sound. Back in time and compare DXIO with Gustard U12 and DXIO was clear winner.

 

[rb2013]

From Chord the $4500 Hugo TT and $6300 QBD76 - their latest statement DACs.  SPIDIF Coax Yes.                I2S - No.
 
http://www.tonepublications.com/review/chord-qbd76-dac/
 

 

[rb2013]

   
I have a Breeze DU-U8 with Talema on the way. I might just have to get this DXIO to compare it for myself if you think it's that much better. So you think the Breeze and PUC are at a similar level, and then DXIO is another step up, correct?
 
How does the DXIO compare to the Breeze without the DC-30W power supply? The switching procedure with the split cable sounds like a PITA since I would have to get up to change it every time. Do you have to do that if you sleep/resume or only if you shutdown?
 
What RCA cable are you using? Ever tried an RCA-RCA adapter? I might end up going this route since the DXIO is pretty tiny and could easily be elevated to prevent strain on the RCA connectors.

Well I hope to swap the DXIO for a PUC2 lite - for a trial - soon.   So I would be able to tell you if the PUC2 is in the same league.
 
Now the PUC2 does not have a DC input

like the DXIO.  So it'll have to be fed by the lesser TeraDak X1/X2



Note no R-core transformer - but a small torodial.  Less power supply filtering.  So with the 2G split cable the PUC2 Lite can be fed with this LPS, but not the R-Core DC-30W.
 
After rolling through about a dozen SPDIF digital RCA cables I settled on the Audio Sensibilites Statement SE Silver at 1.5M.  Very important to use a digital SPDIF cable at 1.5M length to minimize backwave reflections.  Also available in BNC to RCA, RCA to BNC, BNC to BNC, and of course RCA to RCA (the one I use).
 
http://audiosensibility.com/blog/products-2/digital-cables-occ-copper-and-occ-silver/#!/Statement-SE-Silver-S-PDIF-RCA-BNC-Digital-Cable/p/46391588/category=4059160

 Why is 1.5m the ideal length for a RCA/BNC digital cable? Using a digital cable of at least 1.5m in length dramatically reduces the effect of signal reflection (from the receiver back to the transmitter) in typical audiophile equipment. Reflection contributes significantly to jitter in the digital signal. And of course jitter reduces the fidelity of digital music.
In a perfect world where the impedance of the digital source transport (transmitter), transmission line (all wiring, cables, and connectors in between), and the input receiver (DAC) are all identically matched at the S/PDIF standard of 75 ohms, signal reflection is not an issue. But the reality is that this is almost impossible to achieve, particularly in the transmission line.
The choice of 1.5m is just a practical guideline since no one wants a cable in their system that is too long.

 
I still think the Breeze with the Crystek clocks - just may be the killer of killer DDC's.  Right now it is better then the DXIO powered by USB.  That's with the Cerious Graphene Xtreme power cable.
 
This DXIO is a quirky little rascal - but the sound is amazing.  I'm really taken back at how good it it -and with each day's burnin, it's getting better.  The USB power leg only needs to be plugged in once music is playing, then can be unplugged.  I just use a front USB port so access is easy.  I was hoping the Li Ion battery would do the trick but for some reason it doesn't.  It could be that the it's a smart device and senses when there is no USB power demand and shuts off.  Since the DXIO is set to ext power, it's not drawing a current - but needs to 'see' an active power feed to turn on.
 
Anyway - I found the solution.  Not elegant by any means but since I run my systems 24/7 - so my class A amps are always toasty (they sound best this way), it's no big deal for me.

 

[rb2013]

  I have this DXIO http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/54-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wauto-power-switch.html old version with auto switch to external power and work with  16,000mAh Li Ion battery without problem. I have 2 Li Ion batteries connect together. First is charging from USB charger connect to wall, and first one charge second from take USB power to drive DXIO an my Squeezebox touch. This way I believe have cleaner and not uninterrupted USB power. Also try powered DXIO from  Squeezebox touch USB port  and cheep 5V wall wart power supply and battery give my best sound. Back in time and compare DXIO with Gustard U12 and DXIO was clear winner.

Well it doesn't work with this new one.  Run on USB power the Li Ion lights up to sense power delivery  - and the DXIO lights up (the red light inside the spdif optical lights - the only way to tell the unit is powered up).  But the PC will not see a USB device.  It could be the 2G cable - but I doubt it - since it works on USB power from a USB PC plug.  And activates with it set to ext power and the USB leg plugged in.
 
I have another Li Ion I will try - maybe DIYinHK changed the circuit on the new ones?  These Li Ions can put out a lot of current  - up to 2A at 5VDC - peak.

 

[ccschua]

 
The DXIO Pro3 can be - in fact must be started with USB power leg connected - even when set for ext power.  But the SQ jumps significantly with the stock TeraDak DC-30.  Here the LH Labs Lightspeed 2G split cable is invaluable.  Just plug the power leg into any free USB port - then start playing - once the signal is detected unplug the power leg.  Takes 10 seconds.
 
One note - I tried to power the Pro3a with the 16,000mAh Li Ion battery from it;s USB port and the DXIO would not work.  The Li Ion worked fine on the Hydra Z - in the end I preferred the TeraDak X1/X2.  Never got to try the DC-30W as dumb old Audiobyte used a highly unstandard 2.3mm DC input vs the 2.5 that almost everyone else uses - like the DXIO, Wyred Remedy, Uptone Regen, etc...
 
The total cost to upgrade the 10 el-cheapo 'lytics to totl Nichicon HW's or Pannie FM's  was $11.  And about an hour of easy to reach (nice double sided case) soldering.
 
I agree the R-Core transformer is good quality (nice copper shielding touch).
 
Do you know which discretes they use - thought of trying a couple of Hynes in place.
 
Another long listening session last night - the DXIO is smoothing out nicely.  Sounds amazing.  Went through 7 of my favorite Van Morrison albums.  Ones I've heard hundreds of times - and they all sounded fresh.  New details presented - great fun.
 
Moon Dance
Avalon Sunset
A Sense of Wonder  (the 'space' on this album is a trip)
No Method, No Guru, No Teacher
Enlightenment
Common One
Poetic Champions Compose

 

 
they probably use some IRF BJT or so. replacing it with Hynes means the whole DC reg has to be taken out. but Hynes reg is another level up for sure. that is why this is really fun to try.
 
i have actually plan to put the DXIO inside the CAS and the CAS has 12V and 5V in with single RCA out (without USB).

 

[rb2013]

   
they probably use some IRF BJT or so. replacing it with Hynes means the whole DC reg has to be taken out. but Hynes reg is another level up for sure. that is why this is really fun to try.
 
i have actually plan to put the DXIO inside the CAS and the CAS has 12V and 5V in with single RCA out (without USB).

Well if the DXIO really turns out to beat a Crystek or NDK clocked Breeze - I might think of getting a Hynes for it.  $300+ for a power supply is a bit steep, but heck look at what I've spent on Cerious power cables.

 

[rb2013]

I will want to try an AudioGd DI-U8 - at some point this year.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIU8/DIU8EN.htm
 
At $350 it's in the doable range.  And I really like their new design.
 
I would not be going through these USB bridge gymnastics if the pay-off wasn't worth it.  But with each successful step up - the return has been crazy good.
 
Dollar of Dollar one of the best audio deals.
 
 

 

[abartels]

About Chord: no need for I2S because they have USB onboard, ,,,,

 

[onlythat]

rb- for the benefit of head-fi and really, all of humanity, I'm fixin' to send you a PUC 2 Lite to play with (gently) toward the end of this week.
I read with interest your preliminary musings about this new young upstart contender, but there's a definite difference between a detailed component and a musical one You of course know that (and I've lost a lot of money over the past twenty years finding it out- that's for damn sure!) and we shall see if you think the PUC, if indeed any less detailed than the new guy, bears this out. (I won't name names, but one really famous component I've recently owned whose DAC was the poster child for me as regards 'detail' over 'music' rhymes with Lord Shmoogo
Only thing I'm worried about is that you'll have to use a 110ohm to 75ohm converter and I have no need of it due to my AES DAC input. As I have no experience with such hardware, curious how much you think your impressions might be skewed due to this bit of 'extra' meddling with the signal?
Also, as with i2s connections and Sabre dacs, I say (and so do you it's the implementation of a thing and the circuit context into which its placed that's makes or breaks it and not the specific chip or clock or what have you in and of itself.
The PUC for one, definitely has a different golf swing than the others in terms of what's inside and yet it plays on the professional level Ah- the Lee Trevino of converters.

 

[FredA]

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ULPNC-172dBc-Ultra-Low-Phase-Noise-High-Precision-Ultra-Low-Noise-Circuit-/231513578358?hash=item35e748db76:g:nX8AAOSwPhdVERFl

I might venture into fitting these in the breeze. I don't how serious this cie is but the trick is the clock comes with its .1 uv regulattion and its specs are over the top. This could be an easilly reversible change if you leave the current clock regulators in, as long as they don't use too much current without any output drawn. If it improves the sound, you could then remove the small clock regulators and have max performance. Any thought on this? It's also 140$ a pair not cheap. Might get tempted soon as i said. I have a di2014 as a backup if **** hits the fan which i doubt.

 

[rb2013]

About Chord: no need for I2S because they have USB onboard, ,,,,

Well so does the La Scala and the Yggy every other DAC from $200 up built today - but as John Swenson points out, and has been mentioned on this thread numerous times, an external USB bridge can produce better sound - even using SPDIF coax.  The reason is the high level of 'packet noise' generated by processing the USB data stream.  There is no way these built in boards can match a totl external DDC like the Berkeley Alpha.
 
For example in the 6Moons review of the $6,000 La Scala Mk ii - it has a XMOS USB board - but the reviewers still went with an external.  Speaking to my friend who has the $6,000 PS Audio Direct Stream - the OR5 is quite a it better then the built in board.
 
From chief engineer at Uptone John Senson:

Remember that SI consists of rise/fall time, noise, and jitter. The jitter in the SIGNAL is determined by the transmitter PHY, which can be significantly influenced by the clock IT gets and the noise on its PG planes. USUALLY noise is low on the signal as it exits the PHY. The cable (and connectors) cause an increase in raise/fall times, added noise (EMI and crosstalk from power and ground wires) and decreased amplitude of the signal. Any decent receiver will have an automatic gain control (AGC) which compensates for this effect, but that raises the noise on the signal, so I'm lumping the amplitude decrease into noise. The cable by itself rarely adds jitter to the signal, BUT the increased rise/fall times and extra noise cause the received data to have increased jitter in the PHY. This is one of the big issues that all that extra processing is designed to deal with.

When that XMOS chip is dealing with data from the host it is generating its own noise on the PG planes, part of the noise will be from the PHY and part from the MAC. The PHY part can change due to SI of the USB signal, the rest cannot, it stays the same. If separate ground planes and separate power supplies are not used, that noise can directly affect the DAC chip(s) and the master clock oscillator. As was posted from a previous post of mine, even if separate supplies and planes are used with isolation between them, the effects of this noise still winds up at the DAC chip and clock.

The part of this noise not from the PHY is always there, it doesn't matter what your cable is, what USB card you have, whether you have a REGEN etc, it's still there. All that stuff is keeping the PHY part from ADDING extra noise that makes things worse. 

The technically correct solution is to figure out how to prevent this noise from crossing the barrier and getting into the DAC chip and clock, unfortunately this is really tough and nobody has yet to completely figured out how to do this. Thus every DAC ever built will have some level of susceptibility to external influences, some more some less. 

By the way, just because a DAC is not very sensitive to external influences does not mean it sounds really good, there are lots of ways to decrease the sensitivity that muck up the sound. The trick is decrease the sensitivity AND do it in such a way that doesn't decrease SQ. 

So everybody that is tweaking their computers, using different cables, a REGEN etc are all still hearing the effects of the non-PHY noise. If we can figure out how to get rid of THAT, WOW, you won't know what hit you.  

 
If you read 6Moons DAC reviews - almost always the latest generation of totl DACs sound better with an external USB Bridge versus the internal board. 
 
In fact I would say that even an external USB bridge should be run on a separate AC Line with both common mode and differential mode noise isolation - from the DAC.  I know I can hear a difference when I went to a separate P4X4 Pro's for the DDC's and DAC's.

 

[rb2013]

rb- for the benefit of head-fi and really, all of humanity, I'm fixin' to send you a PUC 2 Lite to play with (gently) toward the end of this week.
I read with interest your preliminary musings about this new young upstart contender, but there's a definite difference between a detailed component and a musical one You of course know that (and I've lost a lot of money over the past twenty years finding it out- that's for damn sure!) and we shall see if you think the PUC, if indeed any less detailed than the new guy, bears this out. (I won't name names, but one really famous component I've recently owned whose DAC was the poster child for me as regards 'detail' over 'music' rhymes with Lord Shmoogo
Only thing I'm worried about is that you'll have to use a 110ohm to 75ohm converter and I have no need of it due to my AES DAC input. As I have no experience with such hardware, curious how much you think your impressions might be skewed due to this bit of 'extra' meddling with the signal?
Also, as with i2s connections and Sabre dacs, I say (and so do you it's the implementation of a thing and the circuit context into which its placed that's makes or breaks it and not the specific chip or clock or what have you in and of itself.
The PUC for one, definitely has a different golf swing than the others in terms of what's inside and yet it plays on the professional level Ah- the Lee Trevino of converters.

Well thanks!  I will send you the DXIO - you have a TeraDak right?  We can then compare notes.  You make a good point on the AES to SPDIF conversion.  I have nice Canare and some bnc attenuators - which need to be used to reduce the AES signal and not overload the SPDIF recevier. 
 
Yes the age old trade-off of 'detail' and 'sweetness' - Let me tell you the DXIO is sounding sweet and Uber detailed.  Now it is not as forgiving yet as the Breeze - so a lot will depend on your down stream portion of your system.   Needless to say I have been refining mine for a while now.  Just to show you the level of refinement.  I rolled over 20 different RCA interconnects between my DAC and my amp in the main system.  Finally settling on the $800 (when I bought it - now they are $1000) Aural Thrills Audio tubed bias shielded BCS interconnects.  The tube powered shielding is not in the circuit  - but only energizes the active shielding system.  Then rolled a half dozen power cables for it (each making a small but noticeable difference), settling on the Shunyata Venom.  Then rolled a dozen different 12au7 tubes - again each making a small but noticable difference - settling on the  '60 Mullard black plates.  And that was just to nail that leg of the system down.  The air, transparency and tonal richness was a clear step ahead of any other cable I tried.  And so it goes throughout my system -focusing intently on each part - trying a slew of different approaches.
 

 
 
Looking forward to the PUC2 lite!
 
Cheers!

 

[rb2013]

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ULPNC-172dBc-Ultra-Low-Phase-Noise-High-Precision-Ultra-Low-Noise-Circuit-/231513578358?hash=item35e748db76:g:nX8AAOSwPhdVERFl

I might venture into fitting these in the breeze. I don't how serious this cie is but the trick is the clock comes with its .1 uv regulattion and its specs are over the top. This could be an easilly reversible change if you leave the current clock regulators in, as long as they don't use too much current without any output drawn. If it improves the sound, you could then remove the small clock regulators and have max performance. Any thought on this? It's also 140$ a pair not cheap. Might get tempted soon as i said. I have a di2014 as a backup if **** hits the fan which i doubt.

That looks like the clocks in the new DU-I8 - but hard to tell until a high resolution photo of the board is posted.
 
Now on the specs - the phase noise measurements at 1MHz are very good - but all these clocks have curves that are downward sloped.  So the measurements at those extreme frequencies are usually very good.  More important for audio purposes are the measurements in the audio band 20Hz to 20kHz.  Especially in the mid- band 1kHz to 15kHz.
 
There are issues at getting accurate measurements of clock phase noise below 100Hz due to aliasing and test equipment interaction issues.
 
It would be interesting to see those measurements as compared to the Crystek CCHD-957's or NDK SD's. 
 
The chart below are the plots for the Crystek TXCO CCHD-957 (jagged blue line), NDK TXCO SB (solid blue), NDK TXCO SD (red line) unnamed OXCO (green line).  As you can see below 2.5kHz the NDK SD's are the best TXCO and above 2.5kHz the Crystek CCHD-957's are superior by a large margin over the other TXCOs and even the OXCO clocks.  By -12dB!  Remember each -3dB is a halving of the noise level.
 

 

[rb2013]

I see the phase noise plot - the numbers do look very good.  And SK sourced - SK made?
 
Nice find!
 

 

[onlythat]

Yes! There is definitely the ol' detail v. sweetness battle when one is comparing components, but as you know, certain components (cables included) just have a certain something else too; they are not just 'sweeter' but more engaging. I think it's down to PRaT. I mean, I think some of my other converters might be near as detailed as the PUC (not like the audiophileo isn't detailed, for example), but there is something about the PUC (Something About Mary) in terms of the way it draws you in and plays music (and a well cabled Breeze does this too); the staging, the tonal purity, the pace etc. I knew it as soon as I put the PUC into my system; bam.
I could say the same for my Chord Silver Plus USB cable; some other cables I've had are as detailed, but aren't for some reason as involving. That's why your LightSpeed 2G is so good; its detailed sure, but also lets dynamics and pace through. It isn't boring. Had this experience a couple years ago with an Audio Research LS17 pre which uses 6H30 tubes (as many new pres do); was more detailed than older versions with (I think?) 6dj8 tubes, but not near as engaging to me musically. The older ones weren't merely 'sweeter'; they just seemed more all around musical to me somehow. I wanted to listen more. Yup- definitely more to it than detail vs sweetness in terms of musical engagement...

ps- damn those are some 'advanced' technological cables! Very shagadellic!! And yes, I'm using a Teradak (the 80 dollar one) as LPS for my PUC with the 2G cable.