[tonyxiaoz]

*The impressions

 

[BassDigger]

... it was not his impressions...

True enough. Thank you for pointing that out.

I get the feeling that there's some resentment, aimed in my direction.

I don't share the same enthusiasm as you, about op-amps, and I'm sorry if i've been a bit snarky about it.

Whilst they are a factor, I think that there is a danger of overemphasising the importance op-amps. In my experience, there are usually better ways to spend your cash, before op-amps become a compelling option. For instance, I think a good quality (but not necessarily expensive) power cable is a 'must', for any amp, and both the H10 and H20 are no exception.

Also, it seems to me that Gustard have given reasonable consideration to the choice of op-amp used in the H20. Additionally, I believe that these op-amps are only used in the input section, rather than the output. These factors suggest that changing them is less likely to have any particularly positive effect on the overall SQ. But, it will be nice when this thread has reached the point when many users are discussing the sq of the H20, and the effects of various mods including op-amp swabbing. I just don't think that we're anywhere near that point, yet.

 

[soumya.banerjee]

After many months of deliberation, endless hours of contemplating I committed to this amp and Holo Spring DAC Deluxe Edition.

 

[bunkbail]

Holy schiit, that's so sexy. Congrats on the purchase, hope you can share your impression in coming days.

 

[BassDigger]

After many months of deliberation, endless hours of contemplating I committed to this amp and Holo Spring DAC Deluxe Edition.

Hey, lucky you: it's looks like you've got two new 'toys' to play with.
Don't forget to post your impressions: please include some details, like what phones you're using it with, and what other amps you can compare it to.
Cheers.

 

[soumya.banerjee]

Thanks folks!
Coincidentally that's the exact phrase I used to break the good new to my friends in local circle - "unboxing new toys".

I am still waiting on Amazon to deliver the XLR cables. There after I will test with K712 Pro and HD 800.
Thus far, I have tried with EL-8 Open, Shure SRH840, MDR 7506 and M50x.

It took me barely 20 minutes of listen yesterday, and I knew I am not going back to my Schiits - Lyr 2 (Gold Lion tubes/LISST or Valhalla 2).
And I have listened to several other amps at events and my friends place including Audeze Deckard, RJM Sapphire, some WooAudio crap (can't recall which one), Burson Play (with several OPAMPs at different stages), Aune B1 and Aune X7.
None come close to this amp's clarity, pace, tonality and immensely accurate biasing of load.

My gripes thus far are:
1. For silver model, the markings are in white - which is very difficult to read. Black variant is fine.
2. The matrix based pot triggers relays to switch for every change in volume. Can be annoying to someone else present who is not wearing a headphone.
3. There is no manual whatsoever. Just a warranty card from Gustard.

My unit was manufactured on Jan 24th 2018, just couple of days before I placed order at Shenzhen Audio.
The amp tends to use some kind of adaptive biasing current/voltage, based on load it seems - very similar to Lyr 2.
It has two 6.3 mm SE jacks - one for low impedance loads and another for high gain impedance loads.
There are a total of 4 x 3300uF Nichikon caps. 2 per channel. Separate power supplies as you can see from snaps each having their own toroidal copper transformers.
Heat sinks have been used very generously for current stages, which though get hot, it never dissipates down to outer aluminium chassis much. It remains just mildly warm even after several hours of usage - may be because it's winter here. Still using Schiit Lyr 2 with tubes / Valhalla 2, I could fry eggs after about 90 mins of operation.
Chassis has pretty thick aluminium sheets / slabs and is very sturdy and well built.
There is no vibration whatsoever either from transformer or any other components under operation.

The gain switch is very special - it's not the typical gain switch in other desktop amps where flicking it results in sudden spike/drop in amplitude.
Instead its soft and subtle and takes about couple of seconds to make the load over-driven / under-driven or just correctly biased. Very neat implementation.
Thus far I have not played around with OPAMPs at all. So everything is using LME49720 - two of them socketed as you should find in one of the snaps.

Together with Spring, the chain sounds unbelievably transparent, resolving. Every transient hits the transducer with such force.
Just to make sure I have individual impressions of the DAC and AMP, I initially chained H20 with my previous DAC - SMSL M8A powered by a Sony 5000mAH power bank (since the DAC sounded cleanest that way). Both using PCM with linear phase slow roll-off and DSD 512 upsampled using Foobar DSD Processor - Type C and some DSD256 upsampled from FLACs using SoX. I immediately felt the urge to crank up the volume since I was enjoying the dynamics and pace of the amp. I usually don't listen very loud and exhibit extreme restrain by setting optimal loudness level by listening to 1kHz sine wave test tone at 0dBFS for a while. But yesterday, I threw all that out of window
And things went uphill after Holo Spring came in the picture.

I shall update my impressions with HD 800 / K712 Pro /EL-8 once XLR cables show up. That'll be 5V RMS per channel into H20.

Here some snaps which I took yesterday, please ignore my shoddy skills behind the lens.

 

[BassDigger]

Thanks folks!
Coincidentally that's the exact phrase I used to break the good new to my friends in local circle - "unboxing new toys".

I am still waiting on Amazon to deliver the XLR cables. There after I will test with K712 Pro and HD 800.
Thus far, I have tried with EL-8 Open, Shure SRH840, MDR 7506 and M50x.

It took me barely 20 minutes of listen yesterday, and I knew I am not going back to my Schiits - Lyr 2 (Gold Lion tubes/LISST or Valhalla 2).
And I have listened to several other amps at events and my friends place including Audeze Deckard, RJM Sapphire, some WooAudio crap (can't recall which one), Burson Play (with several OPAMPs at different stages), Aune B1 and Aune X7.
None come close to this amp's clarity, pace, tonality and immensely accurate biasing of load.

My gripes thus far are:
1. For silver model, the markings are in white - which is very difficult to read. Black variant is fine.
2. The matrix based pot triggers relays to switch for every change in volume. Can be annoying to someone else present who is not wearing a headphone.
3. There is no manual whatsoever. Just a warranty card from Gustard.

My unit was manufactured on Jan 24th 2018, just couple of days before I placed order at Shenzhen Audio.
The amp tends to use some kind of adaptive biasing current/voltage, based on load it seems - very similar to Lyr 2.
It has two 6.3 mm SE jacks - one for low impedance loads and another for high gain impedance loads.
There are a total of 4 x 3300uF Nichikon caps. 2 per channel. Separate power supplies as you can see from snaps each having their own toroidal copper transformers.
Heat sinks have been used very generously for current stages, which though get hot, it never dissipates down to outer aluminium chassis much. It remains just mildly warm even after several hours of usage - may be because it's winter here. Still using Schiit Lyr 2 with tubes / Valhalla 2, I could fry eggs after about 90 mins of operation.
Chassis has pretty thick aluminium sheets / slabs and is very sturdy and well built.
There is no vibration whatsoever either from transformer or any other components under operation.

The gain switch is very special - it's not the typical gain switch in other desktop amps where flicking it results in sudden spike/drop in amplitude.
Instead its soft and subtle and takes about couple of seconds to make the load over-driven / under-driven or just correctly biased. Very neat implementation.
Thus far I have not played around with OPAMPs at all. So everything is using LME49720 - two of them socketed as you should find in one of the snaps.

Together with Spring, the chain sounds unbelievably transparent, resolving. Every transient hits the transducer with such force.
Just to make sure I have individual impressions of the DAC and AMP, I initially chained H20 with my previous DAC - SMSL M8A powered by a Sony 5000mAH power bank (since the DAC sounded cleanest that way). Both using PCM with linear phase slow roll-off and DSD 512 upsampled using Foobar DSD Processor - Type C and some DSD256 upsampled from FLACs using SoX. I immediately felt the urge to crank up the volume since I was enjoying the dynamics and pace of the amp. I usually don't listen very loud and exhibit extreme restrain by setting optimal loudness level by listening to 1kHz sine wave test tone at 0dBFS for a while. But yesterday, I threw all that out of window
And things went uphill after Holo Spring came in the picture.

I shall update my impressions with HD 800 / K712 Pro /EL-8 once XLR cables show up. That'll be 5V RMS per channel into H20.

Here some snaps which I took yesterday, please ignore my shoddy skills behind the lens.

Thanks for that, but perhaps you could go into more detail next time (Jus'kiddin'! )

If you can find out, I'd like to know which Woo amp that you thought wasn't so good: I've always read that their stuff is excellent, but of course, there's a whole range of products, and you could be referring to any one of them.

More importantly, it'll be interesting to read your impressions about the difference that using the balanced outputs makes, along with such headphones as the HD800. One of the things that put me off going for the H20, as all of my cables are 6.3mm SE terminated.

Enjoy your toys, and keep up the good 'work'!

Cheers.

 

[soumya.banerjee]

If you can find out, I'd like to know which Woo amp that you thought wasn't so good: I've always read that their stuff is excellent, but of course, there's a whole range of products, and you could be referring to any one of them.

So asked him, it was WA-3. I can't speak for other models out of experience. One of the guys I know who is in KL, Malaysia right now, tried out WA-7 infatuated by its nice looks. He was disappointed and said something as inexpensive as XD-05 with OPA2209 sounded leagues better. From what I have seen thus far, getting an OTL amp to sound right is not so straightforward. Anyways, I am digressing from the subject now.

One of the things that put me off going for the H20, as all of my cables are 6.3mm SE terminated.

So H20 has both SE input (RCA) and SE outputs (2 x 6.3 mm). You will be covered.

 

[bunkbail]

So asked him, it was WA-3. I can't speak for other models out of experience. One of the guys I know who is in KL, Malaysia right now, tried out WA-7 infatuated by its nice looks. He was disappointed and said something as inexpensive as XD-05 with OPA2209 sounded leagues better. From what I have seen thus far, getting an OTL amp to sound right is not so straightforward. Anyways, I am digressing from the subject now.

I auditioned a WA-6 last Sunday and it honestly sucks. The headphones I tried (HD650, Ether, HEX v2, AR-H1) all sounded better from R2R-11 headphones out than the WA-6 (using R2R-11 as DAC).

 

[FLguy]

Thanks folks!
... It took me barely 20 minutes of listen yesterday, and I knew I am not going back to my Schiits - Lyr 2 (Gold Lion tubes/LISST or Valhalla 2).
And I have listened to several other amps at events and my friends place including Audeze Deckard, RJM Sapphire, some WooAudio crap (can't recall which one), Burson Play (with several OPAMPs at different stages), Aune B1 and Aune X7.
None come close to this amp's clarity, pace, tonality and immensely accurate biasing of load....

Thanks - it's good to have additional first hand impressions. That much sounds good!

If you get a chance, could you comment on your impressions of sounds stage width and especially depth? Capability in these areas would be additional goodness.

 

[BassDigger]

So asked him, it was WA-3. I can't speak for other models out of experience. One of the guys I know who is in KL, Malaysia right now, tried out WA-7 infatuated by its nice looks. He was disappointed and said something as inexpensive as XD-05 with OPA2209 sounded leagues better. From what I have seen thus far, getting an OTL amp to sound right is not so straightforward. Anyways, I am digressing from the subject now.

Yeah, well the WA7 is just a combination dac/amp unit, if I'm not mistaken. I've never been tempted by that, or any other combi unit.
OTL? I don't know about the WA7, I just know that those amps are for high impedance cans, only.

So H20 has both SE input (RCA) and SE outputs (2 x 6.3 mm). You will be covered.

Aah! But my concern is about the difference between those outputs: most balanced amps, that have an SE output, just do so for convenience; the SE output is often literally half of the available balanced output circuitry. You seem to have an understanding of H20's design/implementation: is the SE output of the same quality as the balanced?

I auditioned a WA-6 last Sunday and it honestly sucks. The headphones I tried (HD650, Ether, HEX v2, AR-H1) all sounded better from R2R-11 headphones out than the WA-6 (using R2R-11 as DAC).

Interesting. I was never truly tempted by the standard WA6, but the SE version was something that I nearly nabbed, on ebay, on more than one occasion. I've always had the belief that tubes should be great for driving headphones. Swapping tubes, of course, has major effect on the sound of such amps. But, I can't see a tube roll turning a "suck"ing amp into a good one. Saying that, although I'm not familiar with all the phones that you tried it with, I'd say that the WA6 is probably too laid-back (and perhaps lacks voltage) to match well with the (high impedance) HD650, and may be under-powered for the HEX and Ether.

This is maybe all OT, and a bit academic, I know, particularly as I am very happy with the amp that I've already got. But I think that this H20 has some real potential, and a key point of reference is the points of reference that people are comparing it to. That means that talk about the strengths and weaknesses of other amps (particularly highly respected designs) is all relevant talk, imho n'all.

 

[mandrake50]

Is the 200 OHM output impedance for the balanced output that is listed in the specs that I have seen accurate. That seems excessively high to me. I have seen nothing on the output impedance of the SE outputs. Often this is half the balanced out impedance. Again, too high for most of the headphones that I use. The Aeon Flow open and closed comes to mind. Has anyone found a way to contact Gustard? I would like to write and ask if the specification is being reported accurately. I have looked at length for contact info, but struck out.

 

[BassDigger]

Is the 200 OHM output impedance for the balanced output that is listed in the specs that I have seen accurate. That seems excessively high to me. I have seen nothing on the output impedance of the SE outputs. Often this is half the balanced out impedance. Again, too high for most of the headphones that I use. The Aeon Flow open and closed comes to mind. Has anyone found a way to contact Gustard? I would like to write and ask if the specification is being reported accurately. I have looked at length for contact info, but struck out.

You've not mentioned where you saw these specs, but I think that I recall seeing something that appeared to be a mis-translation, somewhere. I think that the "200 ohm" refers to the damping factor, rather than any output/input impedance. If I'm correct, then 200 seems a reasonable figure.

 

[mandrake50]

You've not mentioned where you saw these specs, but I think that I recall seeing something that appeared to be a mis-translation, somewhere. I think that the "200 ohm" refers to the damping factor, rather than any output/input impedance. If I'm correct, then 200 seems a reasonable figure.

Specs are posted in several places. Most recently and clearly on Massdrop. It seems that a few people did the calculations and 200 Ohm output impedance just does not work with the rest of the specs. It most likely the damping factor and not impedance. But, it is definitely listed as the balanced front panel output impedance in the published specifications. It is the same in all of the several places that these are available.

 

[mandrake50]

From Massdrop spec list: