GUSTARD H10 High-current Discrete Class A output Stage Headphone Amplifier

[mylica]

  H10 and He-500 are in. Still waiting on the unbalanced cable, so haven't heard the combo yet. Argh, can't stand the wait. Guess I'll start the burn-in in the mean time. 
 
Tried the HD600 with the H10 and it was fine but nothing special. Wasn't blown away. Definitely better than the Magni though, that combo was terrible. I guess I won't hear the HD600 true potential until I test it with an OTL amp. 
 
BTW, am I bottlenecking the H10 by using a Schiit Modi as DAC? I hope not, cause I'm way over budget as it is 

 

 
Wait for your H10 run for a week or two.  Using HD600 with H10.  Sounds very good for me.  I do change the op amp though

 

[bavinck]

@mark235 burn it in for 4 or 5 days. Most people notice a big change around day 3 or 4. I bet you will really like it with the hd600 once burned in.

 

[olek]

  H10 and He-500 are in. Still waiting on the unbalanced cable, so haven't heard the combo yet. Argh, can't stand the wait. Guess I'll start the burn-in in the mean time. 
 
Tried the HD600 with the H10 and it was fine but nothing special. Wasn't blown away. Definitely better than the Magni though, that combo was terrible. I guess I won't hear the HD600 true potential until I test it with an OTL amp. 
 
BTW, am I bottlenecking the H10 by using a Schiit Modi as DAC? I hope not, cause I'm way over budget as it is 

 

Yes, you are bottlenecking it by your DAC, question is 'how much'. I have heard that new Modi 2 Uber is pretty good, but my experience with original Modi suggests that it does not have much detail/texture, and that is exactly the strong side of H10. H10 can not amplify the detail that is not supplied to it.
 
I am pretty impressed those days by combination of (new to me) DACmini CX and H10 with low impedance headphones. DACmini bested MusicStreamer II so much that it was not even funny - mostly in smoothness and sheer musicality, HRT sounded extremely grainy in comparison. Original Bifrost put up a good fight, but DACmini still beat it in low end extension (goes much deeper and stronger) and overall sound is a notch smoother (without obvious loss of detail) and more musical. Funny because it has same chip as original Modi, but apparently a lot depends on implementation.
 
Sorry for your wallet.

 

[bavinck]

Yes, you are bottlenecking it by your DAC, question is 'how much'. I have heard that new Modi 2 Uber is pretty good, but my experience with original Modi suggests that it does not have much detail/texture, and that is exactly the strong side of H10. H10 can not amplify the detail that is not supplied to it.

I am pretty impressed those days by combination of (new to me) DACmini CX and H10 with low impedance headphones. DACmini bested MusicStreamer II so much that it was not even funny - mostly in smoothness and sheer musicality, HRT sounded extremely grainy in comparison. Original Bifrost put up a good fight, but DACmini still beat it in low end extension (goes much deeper and stronger) and overall sound is a notch smoother (without obvious loss of detail) and more musical. Funny because it has same chip as original Modi, but apparently a lot depends on implementation.

Sorry for your wallet. :tongue_smile:

I wonder how the dacmini/h10 combo compares with the x12/h10 combo? Does anyone know?

 

[Koolpep]

 
Yes, you are bottlenecking it by your DAC, question is 'how much'. I have heard that new Modi 2 Uber is pretty good, but my experience with original Modi suggests that it does not have much detail/texture, and that is exactly the strong side of H10. H10 can not amplify the detail that is not supplied to it.
 
I am pretty impressed those days by combination of (new to me) DACmini CX and H10 with low impedance headphones. DACmini bested MusicStreamer II so much that it was not even funny - mostly in smoothness and sheer musicality, HRT sounded extremely grainy in comparison. Original Bifrost put up a good fight, but DACmini still beat it in low end extension (goes much deeper and stronger) and overall sound is a notch smoother (without obvious loss of detail) and more musical. Funny because it has same chip as original Modi, but apparently a lot depends on implementation.
 
Sorry for your wallet.

I had the same combo: DACMini CX and the H10, now sold the DACMini since I got a great deal on a Burson Conductor. 
 
We did a blind test between DACs connected to the H10 and my friend was able to pick out the DACmini every single time, it's a great implemented AKM chip in it and it sounded so more refined than the Modi, Modi2Uber and the X5 I threw in for good measure. 
 
The DACMini is indeed a very well made device.
 
Cheers,
K

 

[406382]

   
Wait for your H10 run for a week or two.  Using HD600 with H10.  Sounds very good for me.  I do change the op amp though

 

  @mark235 burn it in for 4 or 5 days. Most people notice a big change around day 3 or 4. I bet you will really like it with the hd600 once burned in.

 
Alright, I will wait for a bit and give it another go.

 

[406382]

 
Yes, you are bottlenecking it by your DAC, question is 'how much'. I have heard that new Modi 2 Uber is pretty good, but my experience with original Modi suggests that it does not have much detail/texture, and that is exactly the strong side of H10. H10 can not amplify the detail that is not supplied to it.
 
I am pretty impressed those days by combination of (new to me) DACmini CX and H10 with low impedance headphones. DACmini bested MusicStreamer II so much that it was not even funny - mostly in smoothness and sheer musicality, HRT sounded extremely grainy in comparison. Original Bifrost put up a good fight, but DACmini still beat it in low end extension (goes much deeper and stronger) and overall sound is a notch smoother (without obvious loss of detail) and more musical. Funny because it has same chip as original Modi, but apparently a lot depends on implementation.
 
Sorry for your wallet.

 
Yes, well my wallet is already bleeding, but it isn't dead yet. What the wife will do if I make another purchase could be of more concern though 

. We've bought a house recently so I'll have to go easy on the hobby for now. 
 
Thanks for your info on comparing those DAC's. Looks like the DACmini will go on the shortlist in the future.

 

[olek]

Interesting detail about headphone cables. I really did not like stock cable that came with SHP9500 (so very muddy), thought that cheap Belkin cable was a great improvement, and that (still inexpensive, but better made, with metal endings) $5 MediaBridge cable was giving the cleanest sound.
 
Measuring their resistance with multimeter (couple days later) gave me those numbers (after subtracting zero offset):
 
Stock: 1.8 Ohm
Belkin: 0.4 Ohm
MediaBridge: 0.2 Ohm
 
See the correlation?

 
Now,  I do not trust absolute numbers measuring resistance that low with my cheap multimeter, but its placement of those cables on resistance range can be trusted.
 
Pretty interesting how much those values affected sound, and how easy it was to pick by ear lower resistance cable (before I knew anything about their resistance).
 
My theory is that with low impedance cans (those are 32 Ohm), higher cable resistance screws number of things, and I suspect that reduced damping factor is primary factor.
 
To develop this theory (and to involve H10 in this post), I had more back and forth listening between DACMini headphone out (that is modified from 10 Ohm to 1Ohm by CEntrance) and H10 (that I believe is is a bit higher output impedance than 1 Ohm), and difference became more clear: double bass sounded more 'full' and 'musical' on H10, but 'plucking' detail was being pushed down and that plucking transient was not to be heard much, where DACMini double bass lines were more shy and dry, but plucking was a bit more prominent - probably low frequency transients handled better because of lower damping factor. Both kinds of sound are really good, but somehow H10 sounds more 'musical' and 'enjoyable' even that it is losing some transient details. Now  I understand why CEntrance does NOT generally recommend 1 Ohm modification, unless user is planning to use amp with very low impedance headphones (mostly IEMs), they were saying that their testing suggested that 10 Ohm output impedance was more 'musical' despite of 'theoretical' advantage of 'near 0' impedance. They were right, indeed.
 
Of course, 100 Ohm of Crack's output impedance was way too much in this case, causing bloated bass and overall loss of detail. Not fun at all.
 
Wait, is that a goldilocks effect? Too little output impedance, and sound is too analytical, too much, and it is bloat galore, and it has to be just right for sound to be musical ?

 

[railrus]

Guess everyone agree H10 works with HE560. Did anyone tried Benchmark DAC2  HGC with this combo? reason is i am using the DAC? hope someone can gives some insights. Thanks in advance! 

 

[genclaymore]

   
Yes, well my wallet is already bleeding, but it isn't dead yet. What the wife will do if I make another purchase could be of more concern though 

. We've bought a house recently so I'll have to go easy on the hobby for now. 
 
Thanks for your info on comparing those DAC's. Looks like the DACmini will go on the shortlist in the future.

Pray she doesn't pick up the H10 and throw it at your head since it large and heavy like a brick.

 

[406382]

 
Pray she doesn't pick up the H10 and throw it at your head since it large and heavy like a brick.

 
Nah, she's already got my Classé for that 

 
http://www.classeaudio.com/products/discontinued/cav-500.php#horizontalTab2
 
Bought that beast second hand in my better budget days of the audio hobby.  

 

[kdejonge]

So I am curious, how does the gain switch affect the sound? How does it change the sound for a headphone, are some settings better for planar vs dynamic ?

 

[xevman]

  So I am curious, how does the gain switch affect the sound? How does it change the sound for a headphone, are some settings better for planar vs dynamic ?

IMO the gain switch shouldn't have any impact on the sound signature though there are subjective opinions stating otherwise. In my experience there is no difference its just louder.

 

[DreamKing]

  IMO the gain switch shouldn't have any impact on the sound signature though there are subjective opinions stating otherwise. In my experience there is no difference its just louder.

 
Yeah, I debated it for a bit but it's just equal loudness contours being affected by the substantial loudness change, paired with its potent power capacity as you increase or decrease voltage with gain.
 
However, I do know that some amps have their measurements change for the worst with added gain but audibly not in the H10's case. Or some amps can change from Class-A to A/B operation with added gain, though this shouldn't introduce audible differences.

 

[kdejonge]

   
Yeah, I debated it for a bit but it's just equal loudness contours being affected by the substantial loudness change, paired with its potent power capacity as you increase or decrease voltage with gain.
 
However, I do know that some amps have their measurements change for the worst with added gain but audibly not in the H10's case. Or some amps can change from Class-A to A/B operation with added gain, though this shouldn't introduce audible differences.

What do you use with the he-560? I'm planning to pair it with he-400i. I read +6 is a good number.