[Deleeh]

@camrector

Lool, thank you for asking again.
It confirms exactly what I said this morning in the post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gus...-native-decoding-music-bridge.963630/page-274

Now it has been confirmed again what you also said.

 

[Dandoudou]

This should not be a subject of argumentation, it looks like you don't trust what other member wrote. Besides, an unused pin can be floating (not fixed to the particular logic level) or made different in other board revisions.

Stop putting words in my mouth!
Where did I say that I don't trust what he said?

I ordered a customized HDMI cable, and could not play DSD. @bodiebill2 is still trying, and it's still impossible.
To make DSD work, it's necessary to send to the R26 a flag that the DI-20HE does not send with any pin.
So, I'm surprised that with his DI-20, DSD works but not PCM.

 

[Odezra]

I ordered this 2 months ago, it finally got to me last Monday: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/

Holo RED is a DDC that can be used as a network streamer, or USB.

This is the first DDC that's worked for my R26 in PCM (using i2s).
As a reminder, I posted this awhile back in this thread, but my DI-20HE and Hydra-Z DDC i2s did not work with R26, it forced the R26 into DSD mode.
I'm strictly a PCM listener (and yes I know I could have used HQP to reconvert any PCM stream to DSD, but I just didn't want to go that route).

To get past this limitation of R26, there was a gentleman that created a custom i2s cable to make R26 work with i2s in PCM mode... something I might have eventually tried...
Well, now I don't need to!

I'm going to write up a full review on RED in another thread eventually, but I'll let the cat out of the bag here.

DI-20HE and Hydra-Z using SPDIF were already better than the R26 built in ethernet (which is already super great!).
(note: I did not do the fiber hack, so that might bring R26 ethernet close or to same level as above DDC).

Anyway, DI-20HE and Hydra-Z are really top tier DDC, just excellent.
A huge step over other DDC I've used such as pi2aes/Singxer SU-6/Gustard U18.

Well, there's a new top dog, Holo RED!

So the difference between DI-20HE and Hydra-Z was: 20HE had better technical performance (resolution/micro-dyn), but Hydra-Z had a more analog sound, better timbre.

The RED is like smashing them both together. It's actually a touch better technical performance than the DI-20HE, while also having better tone/timbre than the Hydra-Z!

The fact RED can be used with network or USB is awesome too, should work for anybodies use case.
The chassis is solid milled aluminum brick, crazy nice. Imo for the price of RED, the performance, and features, it just nuked anything else on the market.
OH, and it uses pi4 compute board, so it should play nicely with HQP (as certain oversampling needs that CPU horsepower in the endpoint).

(No, I'm not a Holo salesman LOL)

As I mentioned, I had to wait 2 months for mine. Golden Sound is going to be putting out a review on this product in the next month or so too, giving it the highest endorsements.

You heard it here first, get yours before it's 6mo+ back ordered.
As I said, I had to wait 2mo myself.

This is v interesting! Would love to know whether fmc / lan direct is equivalent or whether the Holo ddc is a step up.

 

[THUB]

Ok, it's official. The R26 just sounds bad for me. How? Treble is thin and lacks tone, bass lacks anything regarding definition, everything sounds like it's got rounded transients, and the sound is just not good overall. I have 240 hours on it now, and it shows no sign of any improvements. I'm honestly wondering if something is just wrong with it. I'm not picking on it's clarity, tone, imaging, timbre, or sense of depth and dimension as one would expect. This R26 just sounds bad. My setup normally often grabs my attention even if I'm not critically listening, and it is full of emotion. The R26 never gave me any of these attributes; not even close.

I have tried both the LAN input and USB. Nothing is better with either. I also tried 3 different power cables with no improvements there either. DSD is better, but not nearly good enough. I put my old DAC back in, and the sound is absolutely glorious, especially after listening to the R26 this past week and a half. It's not even close in comparison. Seriously, if I had to listen to this R26, I'd honestly rather not listen to music at all. I understand I might be the only person stating things like this which leads me to the conclusion this one is broken in some way.

So now I'm not sure what to do. Do I try to give this R26 more time? My guess is this one isn't going to be getting better any time soon. Do I just return it and possibly order another one? Part of me thinks I should just be done with the R26 altogether. This is extremely disappointing as I was beyond hopeful this would be the DAC for me. I loved the idea of the built-in NAA for HQPlayer.

 

[Odezra]

Ok, it's official. The R26 just sounds bad for me. How? Treble is thin and lacks tone, bass lacks anything regarding definition, everything sounds like it's got rounded transients, and the sound is just not good overall. I have 240 hours on it now, and it shows no sign of any improvements. I'm honestly wondering if something is just wrong with it. I'm not picking on it's clarity, tone, imaging, timbre, or sense of depth and dimension as one would expect. This R26 just sounds bad. My setup normally often grabs my attention even if I'm not critically listening, and it is full of emotion. The R26 never gave me any of these attributes; not even close.

I have tried both the LAN input and USB. Nothing is better with either. I also tried 3 different power cables with no improvements there either. DSD is better, but not nearly good enough. I put my old DAC back in, and the sound is absolutely glorious, especially after listening to the R26 this past week and a half. It's not even close in comparison. Seriously, if I had to listen to this R26, I'd honestly rather not listen to music at all. I understand I might be the only person stating things like this which leads me to the conclusion this one is broken in some way.

So now I'm not sure what to do. Do I try to give this R26 more time? My guess is this one isn't going to be getting better any time soon. Do I just return it and possibly order another one? Part of me thinks I should just be done with the R26 altogether. This is extremely disappointing as I was beyond hopeful this would be the DAC for me. I loved the idea of the built-in NAA for HQPlayer.

It's so strange this as it v much goes against the grain of this thread and it seems to be a change from your first few posts?

There could be a few things going on:

- R2R / this DAC is not for you (you really like the Sabre chip implementation you already have)
- There is noise / ground loop somewhere in your system impacting the audio quality
- Maybe a broader synergy issue with your chain

I'd do a few last checks and then it might just be decision time:

- Have you checked that the phase inverter and the attentuation settings on the dac are not accidentally on?
- Have you tired NOS on and off with no upsampling?
- You mentioned you have a gaming pc which was hard wired in, and then i think you separated this out, and went with a LAN cable straight into the DAC from a wifi extender. Have you a seperate laptop or another source you can try (maybe avoid HQ player also for this test) to see if the sound changes. Even a slight improvement might mean you have noise on the line that could be weeded out. Gaming pc's and wifi extenders can bring their own problems.
- Finally i think you have a passive preamp and also some iceedge amplifiers - have you tried going from dac direct to amps (if possible), and or swapping out the amps? Again the issue might be noise, and it would be good to rule out that it isn't the downstream equipment.


I recognise that your sabre dac has performed v well to date. It could be that you just prefer this sound, or it could be that it's helped mask other issues.

These are just some ideas - i am also going from memory on your system set up. So sorry if i am off on the above.

Otherwise - unless others have ideas / thoughts - i think you don't need to wait much longer after these tests, you'll be at decision time. For what it's worth - i think there's something going on in your chain. The R26 shouldn't sound 'bad'. It might underperform in certain areas you value but i'd be suprised if you thought it was a poor dac / unlistenable (not saying it isn't possible, but there is a good wide ranging consensus on the dac's performance level on this thread which makes me think there's something else potentially going on).

If you find there might a noise issue - maybe post back here. We might be able to help weed out the issue.

 

[comzee]

@THUB What the dac are you comparing the R26 too?
I've tried reviewing your posts, and the most I can find is you calling it a "sabre" dac.
What dac do you own??

 

[THUB]

It's so strange this as it v much goes against the grain of this thread and it seems to be a change from your first few posts?

There could be a few things going on:

- R2R / this DAC is not for you (you really like the Sabre chip implementation you already have)
- There is noise / ground loop somewhere in your system impacting the audio quality
- Maybe a broader synergy issue with your chain

I'd do a few last checks and then it might just be decision time:

- Have you checked that the phase inverter and the attentuation settings on the dac are not accidentally on?
- Have you tired NOS on and off with no upsampling?
- You mentioned you have a gaming pc which was hard wired in, and then i think you separated this out, and went with a LAN cable straight into the DAC from a wifi extender. Have you a seperate laptop or another source you can try (maybe avoid HQ player also for this test) to see if the sound changes. Even a slight improvement might mean you have noise on the line that could be weeded out. Gaming pc's and wifi extenders can bring their own problems.
- Finally i think you have a passive preamp and also some iceedge amplifiers - have you tried going from dac direct to amps (if possible), and or swapping out the amps? Again the issue might be noise, and it would be good to rule out that it isn't the downstream equipment.


I recognise that your sabre dac has performed v well to date. It could be that you just prefer this sound, or it could be that it's helped mask other issues.

These are just some ideas - i am also going from memory on your system set up. So sorry if i am off on the above.

Otherwise - unless others have ideas / thoughts - i think you don't need to wait much longer after these tests, you'll be at decision time. For what it's worth - i think there's something going on in your chain. The R26 shouldn't sound 'bad'. It might underperform in certain areas you value but i'd be suprised if you thought it was a poor dac / unlistenable (not saying it isn't possible, but there is a good wide ranging consensus on the dac's performance level on this thread which makes me think there's something else potentially going on).

If you find there might a noise issue - maybe post back here. We might be able to help weed out the issue.

Yes this does vary from my first post. Day 1 listening seemed to have real potential, but it seems things went downhill from there. Out of the box, things seemed hopeful. Now? Absolutely not.

As for your initial thoughts:

I would not say R2R vs. my DAC is a problem. I had a friend's Holo Spring KTE here for 6 months. The issue with it was it sounded too much like my DAC. It didn't give me better tone, sense of depth and dimension, or detail. I actually found it to be a little soft (which Holo improved greatly with the Spring 3 and May), but it was nothing like what I hear from the R26. I didn't keep the Holo because it brought no improvements and I couldn't use the DSD output as the voltage is 1.5v and just not enough to drive my amp to normal listening levels. The Holo did present a few things better, like imaging, but it wasn't enough.

Noise or ground loop issues? No way! I have amazing clarity and silence from my speakers playing a silent track at full volume. I can't imagine I have any noise issues whatsoever.

Synergy could be an issue, but why with just the R26? I've had several DACs here over the last 18 months, and not one sounded bad; just not as good as what I have. The Spring KTE was the only real competitor, but the other DACs were admittedly cheaper: Denefrips Ares II and a VMV D1SE. Both of the latter DAC's had issues of their own with the Denefrips the worst.

I made certain all settings were correct, and I just double checked now. Attenuation is off and phase is disabled.

I did try NOS on and off with no improvements, and I tried every upsampling setting I could to find the best settings for HQPlayer.

My "gaming PC" is called such because it has an NVIDIA video card that I sometimes play games on. I'm 54, so not much more than The Witcher 3 and Red Dead Redemption 2. The PC runs HQPlayer and has been wired to either a Netgear GS108E or D-Link 1008 (or something). My testing with FMC's was terrible and the the 2 wireless access points were better than FMC's, but wired is easily the cleanest sound I can achieve. I did order 2 TP-Link FMC's to go with my Finisar AOC cable to try once more. They were supposed to be delivered Friday, but Amazon never shipped. They still haven't, but I reordered 2 more and they will be here Monday. As for wireless access points, I tested both one of my Plume pods and a TP-Link that was recommended in this thread. It turns out I had the TP-Link in a closet, so I tried it. Both wireless access points changed odds parts of the sound, so there would be no way I'd use them. And the odd issues are not my preferences. So to sum up, my PC is wired to the switch and then the switch to my NAA (either the R26 or my UpBoard mini PC).

I could try Foobar on a laptop. I was going to set that up to further break-in the R26 if it's worth doing. I can't waste any more of my life listening the R26. I might do that tomorrow.

I will try the R26 directly to the amp as it has been the only DAC I haven't done that with. But know that in all circumstances, my Tortuga passive is absolutely transparent and is a detail king. I've heard nothing better for volume control.

I can assure that not one of you would like the sound coming from my R26. Seriously, it's just bad in so many ways.

Thanks for your ideas and input. I hate these situations because I never seem to make the right decision. I'd really hit to miss out if my R26 is bad in some way. To be honest, I'm not certain I'm all to fond of it's engineering regardless of sound quality. 16 bit on the ladder isn't exactly impressive, but I don't know how much of an issue that is if it just sounds great? I'm not really interested in DSD at all.

 

[THUB]

@THUB What the dac are you comparing the R26 too?
I've tried reviewing your posts, and the most I can find is you calling it a "sabre" dac.
What dac do you own??

It's an Eastern Electric DAC Jr with cap upgrades and Burson discrete opamps. I've tried to dethrone it for years, but it doesn't seem possible in my price range. I'm just not willing to spend $3,000 plus on a DAC. It's just not worth that to me. I have other expensive hobbies to waste money on...

 

[comzee]

@THUB That's a bummer man, I don't think anybody could give you an accurate answer here if your specific R26 is defective, or it's just a synergy issue.
If you're in the return window I'd go that route.

 

[THUB]

@THUB That's a bummer man, I don't think anybody could give you an accurate answer here if your specific R26 is defective, or it's just a synergy issue.
If you're in the return window I'd go that route.

Thanks, and this is a real bummer. I'm thinking I might try the A26 before I give up on Gustard.

 

[Odezra]

Thanks, and this is a real bummer. I'm thinking I might try the A26 before I give up on Gustard.

Yea - it's a real shame. I don't really have any other ideas for you unfortunately.

If you are in the return window - I also agree try maybe those last few things you mentioned, and if no joy, get it back before the window lapses.

 

[HC1205]

-Deleted-

 

[Jake2]

Not sure exactly what you want to know, but here is my setup:

Windows 11 PC running HQPlayer wired network to Netgear GS108E switch wired network to R26. The R26 goes to a Tortuga LDR passive preamp to a custom IceEdge S1200AS amp. I only listen to speakers; Salk Sound HT3 (all upgrades). I have all custom cabling, and I have a dedicated and treated room. I have tweaked on my room: speaker positions, listening position, and treatments for many years. I've never had a more dialed in system.

Ok, it's official. The R26 just sounds bad for me. How? Treble is thin and lacks tone, bass lacks anything regarding definition, everything sounds like it's got rounded transients, and the sound is just not good overall. I have 240 hours on it now, and it shows no sign of any improvements. I'm honestly wondering if something is just wrong with it. I'm not picking on it's clarity, tone, imaging, timbre, or sense of depth and dimension as one would expect. This R26 just sounds bad. My setup normally often grabs my attention even if I'm not critically listening, and it is full of emotion. The R26 never gave me any of these attributes; not even close.

I have tried both the LAN input and USB. Nothing is better with either. I also tried 3 different power cables with no improvements there either. DSD is better, but not nearly good enough. I put my old DAC back in, and the sound is absolutely glorious, especially after listening to the R26 this past week and a half. It's not even close in comparison. Seriously, if I had to listen to this R26, I'd honestly rather not listen to music at all. I understand I might be the only person stating things like this which leads me to the conclusion this one is broken in some way.

It's an Eastern Electric DAC Jr with cap upgrades and Burson discrete opamps. I've tried to dethrone it for years, but it doesn't seem possible in my price range. I'm just not willing to spend $3,000 plus on a DAC. It's just not worth that to me. I have other expensive hobbies to waste money on...

Some observations:

• Sounds like your benchmark of your upgraded Eastern Electric is - at least to your ears, but I assume in absolute terms - a very musical sounding DAC especially if it goes toe to toe with a Spring KTE, a high performing $3k DAC. That’s most excellent for you, though makes upgrading without spending a lot challenging. You would seem to have a have a much tougher / higher point of reference than many of us on this thread. That said there’s a happy few ex-Terminator owners in the mix.
• The R26’s likely very modestly engineered internal streamer is very sensitive to what you feed it. Probably far more so than a dedicated streamer. Last week I got the same Netgear switch as you. It’s very good, much better than going direct to a router, but even with an Ifi Power X & grounding box on the Netgear the R26 fed by the LHY SW-8 is more three dimensional, dynamic and natural sounding. R26 more engaging with the LHY. Combing the two with the Netgear upstream improved things further (see my earlier post). As did some cheap grounding tweaks, each of which sanded a way a little bit more residual digital glare and noise. Every single minor tweak I’ve made in the upstream ethernet chain makes an audible additive difference. I’ve not tried FMCs yet so can’t comment on them but from my experience to date think their place will be just after my router before my first switch.
• External clocks. You may not want to shell out on one but I think it’s fair to say the consensus (with one or two dissenting voices of course) a quality one transforms elevates the R26 - everything gets sweeter, more nuanced, dynamic, and engaging. The soundstage gains depth which the SW-8 expanded on further. At the R26’s price point a few things naturally have to be constrained, the internal clock being one - good but not exceptional. The K2 clock sythesiser however is superb. There’s folk using $4k clocks with the X26 & A26 which share the K2 with the R26.
• Your rounded transients point sounds like it likely reflects the difference between a higher dynamic range DS and an R2R, though perceived dynamics and attack definitely improve with an external clock upgrade.
• USB input - OK but not great unless you’re feeding it with an exceptionally good USB source.

My Focals and my ears are v sensitive to midrange and treble edginess and glare. The last four months or so I’ve owned the R26 and have been progressively making said upgrades and tweaks has been a bit like peeling an onion (unflattering analogy I know!). Layers of glare and brittleness - many I wasn’t aware of till they were gone, the old cliche - have progressively peeled away revealing underneath a really analogue sound with great dynamics and three dimensionality.

So my advice? Stop cheaping out and bite the bullet and buy a May KTE.

Or you could try some more of the above I tried , which yes, doesn’t come free (say USD350-800+) but has the benefit of being usable with other DACs like the A26 for example and I guess your existing DAC if you can’t beat it. Or just give up on the R26 and try the A26, but I’d make sure you have a return period as it sounds far from a sure thing you’d prefer it.

Good luck!

Edit - a further thought which occurred to me is you may have a weird incompatibility thing between your class D amp and the R26, it can apparently occur where certain harmonics or aspects of the source signal can trigger unpleasant (and I’m very non-technically paraphrasing from memory) harmonics in the class D amplification stage. I reckon I might have faced this with the Topping PA5 I was using - which was near totally unlistenable with the Focals when fed by the D50s DAC. Better with the SMSL VMV D2, very velvety but a bit too caramelly, and better still if not yet great with the stock R26. The clock was a big step forward with both the D2 and R26. May not be an issue unless you have very revealing speakers… I see your Salks are ruler flat to 20khz and look like they’re very well built, so probably are I expect.

 

[Deleeh]

Ok, it's official. The R26 just sounds bad for me. How? Treble is thin and lacks tone, bass lacks anything regarding definition, everything sounds like it's got rounded transients, and the sound is just not good overall. I have 240 hours on it now, and it shows no sign of any improvements. I'm honestly wondering if something is just wrong with it. I'm not picking on it's clarity, tone, imaging, timbre, or sense of depth and dimension as one would expect. This R26 just sounds bad. My setup normally often grabs my attention even if I'm not critically listening, and it is full of emotion. The R26 never gave me any of these attributes; not even close.

I have tried both the LAN input and USB. Nothing is better with either. I also tried 3 different power cables with no improvements there either. DSD is better, but not nearly good enough. I put my old DAC back in, and the sound is absolutely glorious, especially after listening to the R26 this past week and a half. It's not even close in comparison. Seriously, if I had to listen to this R26, I'd honestly rather not listen to music at all. I understand I might be the only person stating things like this which leads me to the conclusion this one is broken in some way.

So now I'm not sure what to do. Do I try to give this R26 more time? My guess is this one isn't going to be getting better any time soon. Do I just return it and possibly order another one? Part of me thinks I should just be done with the R26 altogether. This is extremely disappointing as I was beyond hopeful this would be the DAC for me. I loved the idea of the built-in NAA for HQPlayer.

Hello,
I think the R26 is not for you, as you mentioned the Spring 3mAres ect. Generally speaking, the R2R is not for you.
The reasons are more personal taste and nothing to do with the chain, even if something satisfactory has been built before.
As I read it, you prefer an exciting setup with a generally brighter sound and treble energy than a warm, relaxed sound.
That's also perfectly OK.
Return the R26 if it's in the return window and try the A26 if it suits you technically or something else entirely.

The problems mentioned could have other causes in the power supply itself or elsewhere.

Personally speaking, there was also something that bothered me about the R26 during the first week.
It wasn't much, just a few areas where I thought it could be a bit better.
I changed the fuse where it was installed to a Refine fuse and found it much better afterwards and am now very happy with it.
I'm not saying you should change a fuse, it's more of a side note.
You seem to be more concerned that the sound of the R26 is not what you expect.
As I said, there is nothing wrong with it - it happens.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

@THUB since your previous DAC is tube based why not try a Musical Paradise MP-D2 Mk3? More or less the same price as R26. It has a tube output stage that you can change tubes and caps. Its DAC modules are modular too. Do ask if its available.