[camrector]

You can't see it, as there is no circle, right?

Here is (attached) @BShaw photo with added circle.

I mean that’s just apart of the R2R ladder. It’s the exact same on the other side. I don’t know what is giving you any indication that it has something to do with DSD.
The picture you had originally posted and circled had eight gold chips that are not present on this photo of BShaws units
The picture you posted.

 

[Davidv100]

But, according to me, it is something else, a YT video by Paul McGowan (PS Audio) that leaves the door open for PCM on A26 as a relevant solution too compared to R26.
I have posted this YT video on the A26 forum a few days ago.

Following this reasoning I am thinking A26 might stand a chance too (for PCM), over R26

Reposting the video from Paul McGowan from A26 forum to this R26 forum too.

 

[sajunky]

The picture you had originally posted and circled had eight gold chips that are not present on this photo of BShaws units

8 gold chips? I only see not populated 8 contact areas, more a tin colour than gold. On the real unit it looks like a 4 resistors soldered in the same place, but it can be also empty spaces.

 

[camrector]

No no Camrector : no confusion at all for me.

I fully understand everything that has been said on these last ten pages.
It is very clear for me, as at confirms what I though and asked here from day one.

But, according to me, it is something else, a YT video by Paul McGowan (PS Audio) that leaves the door open for PCM on A26 as a relevant solution too. I have posted this YT video on the A26 forum a few days ago.

Paul says (in short) that :
- In a perfect world he prefers R2R architecture over Sigma Delta for PCM. Clearly.
- But unfortunately, Paul says there are no R2R ladder resistors precise enough to do deeper than 18 or 20 bits as an absolute maximum. No way to go 24. Resistors precise enough do simply not exist, according to Paul
- To his taste 24 bits PCM rendering is a minimum.
- Therefore, Paul explains PS Audio builds only Sigma Delta DACs and recommends this even for PCM input (which will obviously first be converted to DSD internally).

Following this reasoning (Sigma Delta going deeper in the PCM bits, before transcoding to PCM), I am thinking A26 might stand a chance too (for PCM)

ok gotcha.
I will share my subjective take from my experience.
If you want something that measures perfectly and reproduces Audio beyond the range of human limitations then get a chip dac.
If you want something that sounds good and moves the human soul get an R2R dac.

Maybe you can have both but my Dac wallet currently tops out at $5000.
To my ears the R26 has sounded the best out of all the DACs (chip and R2R) that I have heard under $5000.

 

[camrector]

8 gold chips? I only see not populated 8 contact areas, more a tin colour than gold. On the real unit it looks like a 4 resistors soldered in the same place, but is can be also empty spaces.

Still what has given you any indication that those were for DSD. Please send me any information you have so I can forward it to Gustard and they can correct whatever it is that has confused you.
I included your picture and Gustard said that the area you circled has nothing to do with DSD.

 

[Davidv100]

ok gotcha.
I will share my subjective take from my experience.
If you want something that measures perfectly and reproduces Audio beyond the range of human limitations then get a chip dac.
If you want something that sounds good and moves the human soul get an R2R dac.

Maybe you can have both but my Dac wallet currently tops out at $5000.
To my ears the R26 has sounded the best out of all the DACs (chip and R2R) that I have heard under $5000.

I fully understand your answer Camrector.
And I agree about your point regarding "beyond the range of human limitation".

So, we are 100% aligned, I fully get your point (and therefore I have liked all your posts on the last 10 pages )

Still, it would do no harm if you would consider posting my questions above to Gustard, would it ?

Just to see what they would say, with their own words.

Would you do that please ? It would be fantastic.
I would offer you a box of Belgian chocolates next time I see you.

 

[comzee]

I ordered this 2 months ago, it finally got to me last Monday: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/

Holo RED is a DDC that can be used as a network streamer, or USB.

This is the first DDC that's worked for my R26 in PCM (using i2s).
As a reminder, I posted this awhile back in this thread, but my DI-20HE and Hydra-Z DDC i2s did not work with R26, it forced the R26 into DSD mode.
I'm strictly a PCM listener (and yes I know I could have used HQP to reconvert any PCM stream to DSD, but I just didn't want to go that route).

To get past this limitation of R26, there was a gentleman that created a custom i2s cable to make R26 work with i2s in PCM mode... something I might have eventually tried...
Well, now I don't need to!

I'm going to write up a full review on RED in another thread eventually, but I'll let the cat out of the bag here.

DI-20HE and Hydra-Z using SPDIF were already better than the R26 built in ethernet (which is already super great!).
(note: I did not do the fiber hack, so that might bring R26 ethernet close or to same level as above DDC).

Anyway, DI-20HE and Hydra-Z are really top tier DDC, just excellent.
A huge step over other DDC I've used such as pi2aes/Singxer SU-6/Gustard U18.

Well, there's a new top dog, Holo RED!

So the difference between DI-20HE and Hydra-Z was: 20HE had better technical performance (resolution/micro-dyn), but Hydra-Z had a more analog sound, better timbre.

The RED is like smashing them both together. It's actually a touch better technical performance than the DI-20HE, while also having better tone/timbre than the Hydra-Z!

The fact RED can be used with network or USB is awesome too, should work for anybodies use case.
The chassis is solid milled aluminum brick, crazy nice. Imo for the price of RED, the performance, and features, it just nuked anything else on the market.
OH, and it uses pi4 compute board, so it should play nicely with HQP (as certain oversampling needs that CPU horsepower in the endpoint).

(No, I'm not a Holo salesman LOL)

As I mentioned, I had to wait 2 months for mine. Golden Sound is going to be putting out a review on this product in the next month or so too, giving it the highest endorsements.

You heard it here first, get yours before it's 6mo+ back ordered.
As I said, I had to wait 2mo myself.

 

[sajunky]

Still what has given you any indication that those were for DSD. Please send me any information you have so I can forward it to Gustard and they can correct whatever it is that has confused you.
I included your picture and Gustard said that the area you circled has nothing to do with DSD.

What information you need? It is well known that this (circled) part of the ladder is used in other brands for decoding multi-bit DSD. Just ask them what it is for if not for DSD. One question. It is not R2R ladder, it is for sure.

 

[Davidv100]

Not relevant
Self-deleted

 

[labeelen]

What information you need? It is well known that this (circled) part of the ladder is used in other brands for decoding multi-bit DSD. Just ask them what it is for if not for DSD. One question. It is not R2R ladder, it is for sure.

We need objective facts from a knowledable source, not your opinion on how other brands might have implemented it.
This discussion is about the Gustards R26, if you want to educate people on how other brands implement multi-bit DSD you are in the wrong place, please join the discusssions on those other brands.
… and please refrain from using the word ‘for sure’ … until you are sure.

 

[camrector]

What information you need? It is well known that this (circled) part of the ladder is used in other brands for decoding multi-bit DSD. Just ask them what it is for if not for DSD. One question. It is not R2R ladder, it is for sure.

In this entire 276 page 4133 post thread filled with brilliant minds, you are the first and only person to assume this area has anything to do with DSD.
You can ask Gustard what it’s actually for. I asked and was told that it had nothing to do with DSD. I knew that it didn’t because if you care to go back 200pages ago I confirmed with Gustard how DSD in the R26 was processed.
Because of the limited information provided, I, like you thought that maybe/hopefully there was a multibit conversion. Gustard said no there wasn’t .

 

[camrector]

I fully understand your answer Camrector.
And I agree about your point regarding "beyond the range of human limitation".

So, we are 100% aligned, I fully get your point (and therefore I have liked all your posts on the last 10 pages )

Still, it would do no harm if you would consider posting my questions above to Gustard, would it ?

Just to see what they would say, with their own words.

Would you do that please ? It would be fantastic.
I would offer you a box of Belgian chocolates next time I see you.

Of course
While I didn’t ask them their subjective opinion on the sound, here is the reply I received. Being a chip dac the A26 does the multibit conversion with DSD. There also looks to be an option to bypass the the multibit conversion and keep the DSD signal direct (filter 2) within the AK chip.
Here is also the block schematic for the AK4191EQ used in the A26.

 

[Davidv100]

Of course
While I didn’t ask them their subjective opinion on the sound, here is the reply I received. Being a chip dac the A26 does the multibit conversion with DSD. There also looks to be an option to bypass the the multibit conversion and keep the DSD signal direct (filter 2) within the AK chip.
Here is also the block schematic for the AK4191EQ used in the A26.

Thank you already very much for this Camrector,
I understand I will have to choose between either analysing this OR whisky tasting tonight - both seem exclusive.

 

[Dandoudou]

I ordered this 2 months ago, it finally got to me last Monday: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/

Holo RED is a DDC that can be used as a network streamer, or USB.

This is the first DDC that's worked for my R26 in PCM (using i2s).
As a reminder, I posted this awhile back in this thread, but my DI-20HE and Hydra-Z DDC i2s did not work with R26, it forced the R26 into DSD mode.
I'm strictly a PCM listener (and yes I know I could have used HQP to reconvert any PCM stream to DSD, but I just didn't want to go that route).

To get past this limitation of R26, there was a gentleman that created a custom i2s cable to make R26 work with i2s in PCM mode... something I might have eventually tried...
Well, now I don't need to!

I'm going to write up a full review on RED in another thread eventually, but I'll let the cat out of the bag here.

DI-20HE and Hydra-Z using SPDIF were already better than the R26 built in ethernet (which is already super great!).
(note: I did not do the fiber hack, so that might bring R26 ethernet close or to same level as above DDC).

Anyway, DI-20HE and Hydra-Z are really top tier DDC, just excellent.
A huge step over other DDC I've used such as pi2aes/Singxer SU-6/Gustard U18.

Well, there's a new top dog, Holo RED!

So the difference between DI-20HE and Hydra-Z was: 20HE had better technical performance (resolution/micro-dyn), but Hydra-Z had a more analog sound, better timbre.

The RED is like smashing them both together. It's actually a touch better technical performance than the DI-20HE, while also having better tone/timbre than the Hydra-Z!

The fact RED can be used with network or USB is awesome too, should work for anybodies use case.
The chassis is solid milled aluminum brick, crazy nice. Imo for the price of RED, the performance, and features, it just nuked anything else on the market.
OH, and it uses pi4 compute board, so it should play nicely with HQP (as certain oversampling needs that CPU horsepower in the endpoint).

(No, I'm not a Holo salesman LOL)

As I mentioned, I had to wait 2 months for mine. Golden Sound is going to be putting out a review on this product in the next month or so too, giving it the highest endorsements.

You heard it here first, get yours before it's 6mo+ back ordered.
As I said, I had to wait 2mo myself.

It's strange that you could not do PCM with your DI-20HE and the R26.
With my DI-20HE, PCM works with the R26, but DSD does not work.
It's the same for @bodiebill2 with his DI-20HE and his A26.

 

[sajunky]

It's strange that you could not do PCM with your DI-20HE and the R26.
With my DI-20HE, PCM works with the R26, but DSD does not work.
It's the same for @bodiebill2 with his DI-20HE and his A26.

This should not be a subject of argumentation, it looks like you don't trust what other member wrote. Besides, an unused pin can be floating (not fixed to the particular logic level) or made different in other board revisions.