GUSTARD DAC-R26 Balanced Decoder R2R+1Bit Dual Native Decoding Music Bridge

[Giangi]

A question...in standby mode the power light indicator blinks?

 

[comzee]

A question...in standby mode the power light indicator blinks?

correct.

Also give it a good 3-5 hours of playing music before it starts really getting good.
I remember for the first 2hr specifically it was sounding pretty bad.
R2R generally need that break in/warm up.

Have you got HQP working in Roon with ethernet on the R26?

I haven't, but will soon. I don't see why it wouldn't work though...

edit:

Now that I spend more than 10 seconds thinking about this, actually no, I wouldn't know how to make HQP work with internal R26 LAN.

Has been about a year since I used HQP, forgot a bit how it worked.
I remember now, I used it with Ropieee OS, which had specific support for HQP NAA.

I wonder if you could put RopieeeXL image on the R26 SD card, and it would work....? hmmm

 

[EMINENT]

A question...in standby mode the power light indicator blinks?

Yes.

correct.

Also give it a good 3-5 hours of playing music before it starts really getting good.
I remember for the first 2hr specifically it was sounding pretty bad.
R2R generally need that break in/warm up.




I haven't, but will soon. I don't see why it wouldn't work though...

edit:

Now that I spend more than 10 seconds thinking about this, actually no, I wouldn't know how to make HQP work with internal R26 LAN.

Has been about a year since I used HQP, forgot a bit how it worked.
I remember now, I used it with Ropieee OS, which had specific support for HQP NAA.

I wonder if you could put RopieeeXL image on the R26 SD card, and it would work....? hmmm

All I know is if I select NAA in HQP Output, there is no device option to select from the box below it.

 

[comzee]

All I know is if I select NAA in HQP Output, there is no device option to select from the box below it.

Yup, unless the OS specifically supports HQP NAA, it won't show up in the list.
I'm sure whatever Linux implementation Gustard is using wouldn't support it.

Begs the question, I wonder if R26 is so simple, will the SD card literally just take any lightweight Linux OS, like Ropieee..... hmm
@NoaHimesaka when you got shell access to the internal R26 OS, did you happen to see if it's ARM or X86 architecture?
I assume it's ARM, but it'd be nice to know.

I'll try putting Ropieee on a spare SD card myself, and swapping it into R26... lol

 

[ray12345]

First Setup:
Ethernet -> ALLO USB bridge Signature -> USB -> Gustard U18 -> SPDIF AES+Wordclock sync -> Antelope Zodiac -> AVC (abx switch) -> Quad 909 AMP -> Solstice Speakers
Ethernet -> R26 -> AVC (abx switch) -> Quad 909 AMP -> Solstice Speakers

Second Setup:
Ethernet -> ALLO USB bridge Signature -> USB -> Gustard U18 -> I2S HDMI -> X26 -> AVC (abx switch) -> Quad 909 AMP -> Solstice Speakers
Ethernet -> R26 -> AVC (abx switch) -> Quad 909 AMP -> Solstice Speakers

Both Roon endpoints grouped to output at the same time.


TLDR: I compared DAC's #1 Antelope Zodiac Gold #2 Gustard R26 #3 Gustard R26 with a Quad 909 AMP and Solstice speakers

(copied from discord might look weird)


Ok, R26 biggest strength vs X26 is more air
X26 feels very stuffy in direct abx
Bells, whistles and cymbals just appear and disappear into space just floating delicately
long trail
not sure if that's what they call transients or not
but it's the biggest difference between the two
Then I also think R26 has better timbre + texture, not massive, but easily noticeable
I think this is part has to do with sounds having room to breath, and having air
R26 stage just acceptable enough for speakers I'd say
If I had to rank that one aspect
soundstage
Zodiac 9/10
R26 7/10
X26 5/10
So R26 has nice bump over X26, but no giant killer in that category
Instrument separation is better with R26, or at least things sound more defined between each other
X26 slams things together slightly
Tonally
I think X26 is a hair more warm
I think R26 might immediately sound brighter, but it's more that R26 has treble sparkle and air that X26 doesn't
tonally they're pretty close on the warm/neutral/bright spectrum apart from that, again I think R26 is just a hair brighter overall
Zodiac has better separation and tactility than both
R26 has better texture, but Zodiac is more tactile
if that makes sense
anyway, I think R26 is a straight upgrade over X26 imo
R26 and Zodiac more trade blows, more depending on what you value more for that VS

edit:

@roncal missed that question, all the SQ impressions I've posted have been pcm.
I only care enough about mqa/dsd to test they work, for the community.
I will perform no SQ tests with either format, my apologies.

Interesting finding. I too compared the two but I have the C18 clock. With the C18 and U18, the X26 pro is able to produce more details than the R26.

Before your test, I would suppose the following :
1) just R26 vs X26, most would prefer R26
2) U18+R26 vs U18+X26, I would tend to think it is equal, with R26 being fuller in vocals and X26 having an edge in bass clarity
3) C18+U18, then X26 starts to shine

BTW, all Gustard products are very sensitive to power cables, did you try different power cables for the R26 and X26? which one did you use for the test?

I found Gustard DACs goes quite well with Audioquest cables. I have used other brands' power cables and the timbre becomes off entirely, making my X26 pro unlistenable, yes it is that much of difference ......

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

R26 directly via network cuts out so many intermediate conversion steps, I'm telling you, it's scary good. I won't be using any DDC with R26, and yes, I've tried U18 and Hydra-Z with R26 already. I'll be trying my DI-20HE with R26 in about a week (it's at a friends place for loaner).

Plus the convenience that I could control w/in my tablet/smartphone. For this I am contemplating to buy an ethernet regen/reclocker.

 

[Giangi]

Yup, unless the OS specifically supports HQP NAA, it won't show up in the list.
I'm sure whatever Linux implementation Gustard is using wouldn't support it.

Begs the question, I wonder if R26 is so simple, will the SD card literally just take any lightweight Linux OS, like Ropieee..... hmm
@NoaHimesaka when you got shell access to the internal R26 OS, did you happen to see if it's ARM or X86 architecture?
I assume it's ARM, but it'd be nice to know.

I'll try putting Ropieee on a spare SD card myself, and swapping it into R26... lol

Did you try Ropieee XL with R26? It works?

 

[raps1514]

Yes! DX300 (as player, via USB) > U18 > R26

Just checking why my dude here with the Ibasso would be better served connecting source via USB instead of, say, COAX directly into R26?

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

If you want to connect coax to your R26 you need a DDC. DX300 has no coax output me thinks. Only USB.
If no DDC, just connect DX300 via USB to R26 no sweat. Coax in R26 is limited to 24/192 PCM.

Tip using DX300 as Streamer:
- Install USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) from PlayStore.
- Connect USB from phone to DAC via an OTG cable. When opening app for the first time, give access rights to UAPP.
- On UAPP slide fingers from left to right to access menu.
- ENABLE UPnP Renderer and place down your DAP.
- On a separate phone or tablet, install BubbleUPnP(Android) or mConnect (Apple and Android)
- Place your Tidal/Qobuz or NAS credentials.
- Locate and choose UAPP Rederer as endpoint from App.
- Access and play music from your preferred source.
Enjoy!

 

[mantraone]

Interesting finding. I too compared the two but I have the C18 clock. With the C18 and U18, the X26 pro is able to produce more details than the R26.

Before your test, I would suppose the following :
1) just R26 vs X26, most would prefer R26
2) U18+R26 vs U18+X26, I would tend to think it is equal, with R26 being fuller in vocals and X26 having an edge in bass clarity
3) C18+U18, then X26 starts to shine

BTW, all Gustard products are very sensitive to power cables, did you try different power cables for the R26 and X26? which one did you use for the test?

I found Gustard DACs goes quite well with Audioquest cables. I have used other brands' power cables and the timbre becomes off entirely, making my X26 pro unlistenable, yes it is that much of difference ......

Wich Audioquest Power cable did you tested? Wich is the best for the X26 pro?

 

[Mista Lova Lova]

X26 and R26 side by side, was doing ABX last night, and will continue for a few days to post impressions.

Test bed:
Ethernet -> Allo Signature -> USB -> Hydra-Z -> I2S -> X26 -> AVC (abx switch) -> AMP -> Driver
Ethernet -> R26 -> AVC (abx switch) -> AMP -> Driver

Both devices "grouped" in Roon to output at the same time.
The AVC works as the ABX switch.

Last night I was comparing with a Pentode headamp + HD800.
Today I'm using Elekit 8600S + Omega speakers.
Tomorrow I try it with Quad 909 amp + Solstice speakers (comparing to Zodiac DAC as well)

I only have one impression right now for X26 vs R26:

X26 is warmer than R26. It's actually an aspect I liked about X26, it sounded more analog because it had a slight warm tilt, but that's just it.
It's a technique that attempts to make something analog sounding, but it's not actually that.
R26 sounds analog, but not warm, big difference.
The treble on R26 really sparkles because of it.
It feels alive, while the X26 by direct abx comparison sounds muted and boring.

I still like X26, I think it's tonality over other ESS implementations is amazing. I'd much prefer a bit boring ESS sound, than the harsh treble sibilant sound that most other ESS dacs have. But reiterating, it's more like a band-aid fix for ESS, the R26 doesn't* need such fixes. The tonality and timbre is a gem. Analog sounding without being warm, treble sparkle without being harsh or sibilant. Timbre natural and engaging.

I've not read the entire thread so apologies if this has been answered before - would you be able to put the X26 Pro and the R26 both in NOS mode (allowing for external oversampling) and then use Roon's upsampling (would require MQA support switched off so that Roon can unpack and upsample the files)? This has made a significant difference to my X26 Pro - even though I was very happy with it as it was when it arrived, now it's one of those things that cannot be unheard and I don't ever want to go back to the internal upsampling (this effect has been confirmed by my non-audiophile partner). Just set headroom management to -3dB.

But in this case what I'm thinking about is bypassing both devices' filters in case they are different and there's some special "sauce" in the R26 to make it sound in a given way - with Roon's upsampling providing a level playing field, I think we would then be able to truly see what the resistors bring to the table (or perhaps what they lack in comparison to Delta-Sigma). It's of course perfectly possible that the results will be similar/identical if the filters Gustard used are similar/identical.

 

[comzee]

would you be able to put the X26 Pro and the R26 both in NOS mode (allowing for external oversampling) and then use Roon's upsampling (would require MQA support switched off so that Roon can unpack and upsample the files)?

While I agree with most everything you said, I just don't have the inclination to try this. I already have X26 up for sale (shameless plug, it's for sale here on head-fi), boxed away with accessories.

Do I know the wonders of OS, of course. I've used HQP, had lengthy discussions on discord about what filters to use, what filters people like for what genre.
HQP is like Roon OS on steroids. Of course I've also tried Roon OS. I've actually done Roon OS with R26 in NOS mode when I first got it a week ago, just briefly.

Typically speaking, ya Roon/HQP OS will be better than most built in OS.

BUT, at the end of the day, maybe I'm Dunning-Kruger with saying this, but I feel like I have a solid grasp on what off-boarding OS improves, and doesn't improve.
I don't feel like doing this comparison will change my mind on what I've written.

Hopefully another X26/R26 owner can do the comparison.

 

[Mista Lova Lova]

While I agree with most everything you said, I just don't have the inclination to try this. I already have X26 up for sale (shameless plug, it's for sale here on head-fi), boxed away with accessories.

Do I know the wonders of OS, of course. I've used HQP, had lengthy discussions on discord about what filters to use, what filters people like for what genre.
HQP is like Roon OS on steroids. Of course I've also tried Roon OS. I've actually done Roon OS with R26 in NOS mode when I first got it a week ago, just briefly.

Typically speaking, ya Roon/HQP OS will be better than most built in OS.

BUT, at the end of the day, maybe I'm Dunning-Kruger with saying this, but I feel like I have a solid grasp on what off-boarding OS improves, and doesn't improve.
I don't feel like doing this comparison will change my mind on what I've written.

Hopefully another X26/R26 owner can do the comparison.

No problem, thanks. As an X26 Pro owner I was curious to find out what it is that actually makes the R26 different (my educated guess was always that resistors simply offer slightly less precise reproduction which some people simply find more pleasant, as digital sound reproduced "perfectly" can sound more real than real life, so to speak). So in this context I thought of Roon's upsampling simply as a way to bypass both DACs' internal oversampling, thus getting to the bottom of how R2R and D-S are different.

By the way, my old(ish) PC won't run HQPlayer (which requires the processor to support a particular instruction extension) so I have no way of comparing Roon to HQPlayer. Is the difference really significant or is it more for people who simply enjoy being able to customise every single thing? Because to my ears Roon already makes everything sound airier and more clearly separated.

 

[comzee]

No problem, thanks. As an X26 Pro owner I was curious to find out what it is that actually makes the R26 different (my educated guess was always that resistors simply offer slightly less precise reproduction which some people simply find more pleasant, as digital sound reproduced "perfectly" can sound more real than real life, so to speak). So in this context I thought of Roon's upsampling simply as a way to bypass both DACs' internal oversampling, thus getting to the bottom of how R2R and D-S are different.

By the way, my old(ish) PC won't run HQPlayer (which requires the processor to support a particular instruction extension) so I have no way of comparing Roon to HQPlayer. Is the difference really significant or is it more for people who simply enjoy being able to customise every single thing? Because to my ears Roon already makes everything sound airier and more clearly separated.

Will HQP be better than Roon OS, ya. But it's not as big of a jump between DAC internal OS, and Roon OS. It's a smaller step.
I wouldn't worry about it.


As far as what makes R2R different sounding than Delta Sigma, you could read a 500 page white paper on it and still not have all the info.

Here's an layman's take on it, something simple enough I was able to understand: http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm
Anything further then that, it gets complicated, fast.

 

[Mista Lova Lova]

Will HQP be better than Roon OS, ya. But it's not as big of a jump between DAC internal OS, and Roon OS. It's a smaller step.
I wouldn't worry about it.


As far as what makes R2R different sounding than Delta Sigma, you could read a 500 page white paper on it and still not have all the info.

Here's an layman's take on it, something simple enough I was able to understand: http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm
Anything further then that, it gets complicated, fast.

Hehe, thanks for that, I'll have a read.

If, as you say, the difference between HQ Player and Roon is not as significant as between Roon and DAC's internal OS - would I be right in thinking that my Gustard X26 Pro with Roon's upsampling can rival Chord products with their M-Scaler? The X26 Pro seems superbly built with no corners cut, so I'm thinking that if we address the off-the-shelf chipset by implementing Roon's upsampling, then there would be no no reason why it shouldn't at least be close (with my amp potentially being the limiting factor here as opposed to the DAC itself)?