[camrector]

In result of such experiments converting R2R DAC to Delta-Sigma, your fiend camrector sold his R26 and now keep disturbing this thread.

You’ve never even owned a R26 and continue to disturb this thread by proving you have zero clue on how it functions or what the components in the enclosure are even for. Go take your circle drawing somewhere else.

 

[Deleeh]

Hello,
short and stupid question how do I integrate HQ Player into Roon?
Do I have to download Hq Player and install it on the PC and then integrate it into Roon?
The ROOn manual regarding Hq Player is not very clear.
I have also changed from 32/96 to 16/96.
Let's see if I can hear anything, if it's possible at all.

 

[camrector]

Do I have to download Hq Player and install it on the PC and then integrate it into Roon?

Yes
It’s super easy
Open Roon and go to “Settings” (click on the gear icon in the top right corner). In the “Settings” menu, select “Audio.” Locate the “HQPlayer” section and enable HQPlayer by clicking the “Enable” button. After enabling HQPlayer, click on the gear icon next to it to access its settings.

 

[labeelen]

They measure worse and your Dac is not performing at optimally as it could.
Its objectively worse sound quality, subjectivity you may not even notice this.

Hi cam, subjectively we might even prefere the sound of the worse measuring option

All jokes aside, like you I was a firm believer in reducing the bits to 15 before sending the (HQPlayer) upsampled stream to my R26 and returning it to ‘default’ when I used my Singxer sda-6 (delta-sigma).

Growing tired of this constant swapping I just left it to the default bit depth and to be honest I currently like it more this way.

Don’t know what changed, maybe the filter settings or my hearing but It made me think about the risk of losing certain audio qualities in the quest to perfect measurements. Whe have to be aware that we risk losing more than only a few distortion spikes in a chart.

As proud R2R owners we often joked about the clinical guys at ASR… whilst we enjoyed our less-perfect measuring R26. Let’s not step in the same trap.

In summary, I would advise all to let their own ears be the ultimate judge and relativize the importance of clean distortion charts.

btw good to see you are still around … apparently R26 has never left your hart

 

[ohcrapgorillas]

While we're talking about HQPlayer, I switched from running HQPlayer OS on Pi4/Pi2AES to using hqplayerd on my overpowered dedicated media server (i5-10600KF, GTX 1660 Ti). I can now run any of the filters and also run DSD512 to the LAN streamer. I am in the process of burning in the DSD DAC just out of curiosity, even tho I'm satisfied with the way PCM sounds.

I still think that the Pi2AES feeding the R26 via AES at 176.4/192 kHz yields more fine detail than the LAN streamer at 705.6/768 kHz.

EDIT: hell yes, I can run upsampling to DSD512 using poly-sinc-gauss-xla and ASDM7EC-super 512+fs on this PC

 

[Deleeh]

Yes
It’s super easy
Open Roon and go to “Settings” (click on the gear icon in the top right corner). In the “Settings” menu, select “Audio.” Locate the “HQPlayer” section and enable HQPlayer by clicking the “Enable” button. After enabling HQPlayer, click on the gear icon next to it to access its settings.

Thank you.
I'll have another look this week.
Today has been a crazy day,first working day of the new year can be really crazy.

 

[GoldenSound]

its actually a 25db range (or possibly 27-28db). This is improved to about 30db on the bottom graph, so yes an improvement, but mostly the distortion is obscured by the 25db higher noise floor. 4th harmonic seems the same for example.

That is! Noise floor increases by 25dB!

You need a serious listening session before bringing recommendation on this forum. Cutting word depth to 16-bits and applying extensive dithering noise shaping only to satisfy your mindset that FFT plot looks clean.

Not exactly, as grass is increasing by 25dB. Even on the FFT plot doen't look right.

In result of such experiments converting R2R DAC to Delta-Sigma, your fiend camrector sold his R26 and now keep disturbing this thread.

Firstly, worth mentioning that the FFT visual should NEVER be used to judge absolute noise floor level or change in noise, as it's affected by a number of factors including FFT length, ADC sample rate, ADC noise, number of averages. This is known as 'FFT gain' and I've written a bit about it here: https://headphones.com/blogs/features/the-glossary-of-audio-measurements-and-terms#section-5-57

And Amir did a video on the topic if interested:


Ignoring that though, the noise level does increase as we're adding dither at a level higher than the analog noise floor of this particular device (the same wouldn't be true if you were doing this at 20 bit for example), but this is fixed and random noise, and in the process we fix signal-correlated errors that are higher in level.

By doing this you have more actual distortion free dynamic range than you do if you just left it as is.

By all means try both and if one sounds better to you, use that. But if wanting to maximise the performance of your DAC, this gives more real dynamic range, and signal-correlated errors are almost always more audible than random noise.

I would emphasize though that if possible, using HQP is ideal. Dithering without sample rate conversion is limited, and with roon for example you're using basic TDPF dither which is why we see an increase in noise.
Using a more advanced noise shaper like NS9 or LNS15 in HQP you can get much higher dynamic range and don't encounter these challenges.

Stuff like PGGB has a noise shaper that with 20 bit output has about 600dB dynamic range in the audible band so you're not gonna be limited by anything there

 

[sa3999]

While we're talking about HQPlayer, I switched from running HQPlayer OS on Pi4/Pi2AES to using hqplayerd on my overpowered dedicated media server (i5-10600KF, GTX 1660 Ti). I can now run any of the filters and also run DSD512 to the LAN streamer. I am in the process of burning in the DSD DAC just out of curiosity, even tho I'm satisfied with the way PCM sounds.

I still think that the Pi2AES feeding the R26 via AES at 176.4/192 kHz yields more fine detail than the LAN streamer at 705.6/768 kHz.

I would concur with your PoV regarding the Pi2AES via AES sounding better than the R26 built-in LAN streamer.

In my system, using the R26 I2S input from a high quality streamer is a further step-up (in terms of sound quality) compared to the AES input via the Pi2AES. YMMV - almost everything is going to be system specific.

 

[sajunky]

By all means try both and if one sounds better to you, use that. But if wanting to maximise the performance of your DAC, this gives more real dynamic range, and signal-correlated errors are almost always more audible than random noise.

It is obvious that what we hear is more important than what we see on the FFT plot. It presents a static averaged map of energy distribution, while our ears are sensitive to the dynamic changes. I notice big improvement in your understanding of technology, no kidding. Few words about, as is important.

It is surprising to see how much your knowledge progressed since our dispute about Holo Audio scrambling sound. You was fighting to death opposing my opinion, while your own examples proved that Holo Audio DAC was indeed scrambling a sound, but you didn't accept my arguments.

Time is passing and now you present quite scientific interpretation on the HQPlayer scrambling sound. And now you pretent to teach me on the same matters which previously were beyond of your immagination! .LOL.
That is ridiculously reversed situation.

Problem is I do not oppose what you wrote above. I am very happy that you grew up to a level which allows you also understand mechanism what is done with sound inside HoloAudio DAC. You are explaining HQPlayer method, the same applies to Holo Audio. It is because it is identical engineering applied in both cases. Holo Audio scambling a sound internally, HQPlayer externally. Whether it is good or wrong for our ears, it is other matter, also a personal preference.

On a conclusion I have to repeat my initial comment that we need to understand difference between a real linearity of a ladder and averaged linearity after applied dithering. While it is proven that a minimal dither is needed to remove quantisation errors and there are scientific research papers on the optimal amount of dither, attempts to linearize ladder errors by dithering leads to degradation of sound. I prefer a natural dithering on a noise coming from the low significant bit resistors.

 

[GoldenSound]

It is surprising to see how much your knowledge progressed since our dispute about Holo Audio scrambling sound. You was fighting to death opposing my opinion, while your own examples proved that Holo Audio DAC was indeed scrambling a sound, but you didn't accept my arguments.

Time is passing and now you present quite scientific interpretation on the HQPlayer scrambling sound. And now you pretent to teach me on the same matters which previously were beyond of your immagination! .LOL.
That is ridiculously reversed situation.

Problem is I do not oppose what you wrote above. I am very happy that you grew up to a level which allows you also understand mechanism what is done with sound inside HoloAudio DAC. You are explaining HQPlayer method, the same applies to Holo Audio. It is because it is identical engineering applied in both cases. Holo Audio scambling a sound internally, HQPlayer externally. Whether it is good or wrong for our ears, it is other matter, also a personal preference.

There is no 'scrambling' going on. The exact same behaviour I showed above occurs on Holo DACs too, as they are NOT running any sort of internal dithering/noise shaping or other digital processing.

 

[sajunky]

There is no 'scrambling' going on. The exact same behaviour I showed above occurs on Holo DACs too, as they are NOT running any sort of internal dithering/noise shaping or other digital processing.

Knowledge may improve, but these things never change .LOL.

 

[venomas200]

Hi .
Im not using specialty Tidal connect, because I'm using roon. But I have some issues with Tidal connect. If I'm using phone with android Tidal connect doesn't work. This same story if I'm using iPhone or PC app on Windows this functions works fine. I'm try on Galaxy S23 Ultra, Galaxy a34, and some realme 9 Pro.
Edit I'm read through all pages and know this not working on Android.
Some people maybe try add clock exteral to R26? But very cheap
Other this I think on eversolo dmp a6, this transport give me better sound, like bullit in R26 streamer? I'm.still use Ifi zen Stream via coaxial , because I think this way is most analog quality. Very light and smooth sound without digital feelings. Thanks

 

[easylive]

Hi .
Im not using specialty Tidal connect, because I'm using roon. But I have some issues with Tidal connect. If I'm using phone with android Tidal connect doesn't work. This same story if I'm using iPhone or PC app on Windows this functions works fine. I'm try on Galaxy S23 Ultra, Galaxy a34, and some realme 9 Pro.
Edit I'm read through all pages and know this not working on Android.
Some people maybe try add clock exteral to R26? But very cheap
Other this I think on eversolo dmp a6, this transport give me better sound, like bullit in R26 streamer? I'm.still use Ifi zen Stream via coaxial , because I think this way is most analog quality. Very light and smooth sound without digital feelings. Thanks

Hi, for Tidal connect on android you need to install an older version of tidal app from apkmirror (2.64.2), then it works without problems. To your second question, I had also DMP A6 and used it as transport for my r26, but I sold it because the sound quality by using internal streamer is better, so I sold the DMP A6...

 

[venomas200]

Hi, for Tidal connect on android you need to install an older version of tidal app from apkmirror (2.64.2), then it works without problems. To your second question, I had also DMP A6 and used it as transport for my r26, but I sold it because the sound quality by using internal streamer is better, so I sold the DMP A6...

Oo thanks so why when use Ifi via coaxial i feelings this sound it's mutch better. Strings of guitar have a longer decay. And moore analog overall sound. I'm honest wireworld power cable blurred the differences a bit

 

[venomas200]

I have another question whats will be better to my R26 add clock like OCK-1 , or add Eversolo A6 as streamer . Some suggestions?