[Zaurux]

With respect, I'd suggest the baseline wattage draw one compares to in such a thought experiment shouldn't be the R26 as a whole, it ought to be just the very localised average power demands of the network interface board and the internal renderer board too. But excluding the likely much larger and more remote power draw of at least the R2R ladders, the analogue stage and any heat dissipated by the transformers themselves. Even with a reduced divisor you'd likely still quite reasonably guestimate a tiny %, don't get me wrong, so you might well reasonably repeat the "should have no effect" statement. To which I might respond questioning what testing of the threshold for audibility of ground plane induced noise is this based on? I'd rather just say though I've lost count of the the number of shouldn't matter theoretical propositions that have crashed on the rocks of first hand experience the last year I've gotten back into hifi.

This is why on my A26 (SBC streamer is different from the R26), CPU runs at 480Mhz (max: 1.10Ghz) and NAA is isolated only on one of the 2 cores)..
Small is beautiful !

 

[mgsu]

Notice he discusses how jitter effects every interface, USB/I2S/SPIDF/Optical/AES except LAN, because jitter doesn't affect LAN.

To answer your question, I believe it matters when the DDC does a better job than the DAC.
I would take a DAC with a great USB interface over a DDC with a bad USB interface, the DDC isn't automatically better. It's not the presence of I2S that makes it better, it's whether the internals of the DDC are better than the DAC. I2S doesn't eliminate the need for decoding/unpacking, it simply eliminates the need for the DAC to do it. It's still happening, but inside the DDC.

In his video he shows how the May alone can get lower jitter than any of the DDCs. In that case I would just use the May without a DDC. For other DACs without such high performance, I might use a DDC.

I notice the same with R26. I got rid of SU6 DDC. Now much better SQ.
All you need is a very good streamer/transport to get the most of your DAC.
USB on R26 with a good streamer is much better than IIS from a DDC
I've tried also R26 internal streamer and Tidal connect but external streamer/transport was much better.
With every additional component (DDC) you add more phase noise to your system.
Just stick to Streamer/transport and DAC for better SQ.

 

[Dandoudou]

USB on R26 with a good streamer is much better than IIS from a DDC

It depends on the devices and the cables that you are using.
As a streamer, my Red can output both USB and I2S. With it, I2S sounds better than USB. And much better than the internal streamer of the R26.

 

[Jake2]

I notice the same with R26. I got rid of SU6 DDC. Now much better SQ.
All you need is a very good streamer/transport to get the most of your DAC.
USB on R26 with a good streamer is much better than IIS from a DDC
I've tried also R26 internal streamer and Tidal connect but external streamer/transport was much better.
With every additional component (DDC) you add more phase noise to your system.
Just stick to Streamer/transport and DAC for better SQ.

What external streamer do you use? Holo Red and Eversolo are both getting great reviews.

I agree with you from my tests with I2S from SU6 and U18 vs R26 internal HQP NAA renderer, which I prefer to both. I used a Zen stream and my MacBook M1 to feed the DDCs via USB. Zen was better than USB from Mac but not as good as R26 NAA.

I am in the process of settting up an AfterDark Rosanna Diretta network bridge to connect to R26 via USB and/or U18 & I2S. Will report back.

 

[Dandoudou]

I have a radical solution in the pipeline to upgrade USB to its best… If it works, I will report about it in a week.

 

[camrector]

I notice the same with R26. I got rid of SU6 DDC. Now much better SQ.
All you need is a very good streamer/transport to get the most of your DAC.
USB on R26 with a good streamer is much better than IIS from a DDC
I've tried also R26 internal streamer and Tidal connect but external streamer/transport was much better.
With every additional component (DDC) you add more phase noise to your system.
Just stick to Streamer/transport and DAC for better SQ.

I had the exact opposite experience.
My Silent Angel Munich m1T/R26 I2S combo was worse sq wise than the R26 internal.

 

[mgsu]

It depends on the devices and the cables that you are using.
As a streamer, my Red can output both USB and I2S. With it, I2S sounds better than USB. And much better than the internal streamer of the R26.

Yes, 100% depends on the streamer. I am using StackAudio Link II as a Roon Endpoint over USB into R26. Not all streamers/transports are equal!

No offend: Regarding SU6 + R26, ive got better SQ from both devices than R26 internal streamer.
I used the Link II as a transport into the SU6 for the last two years. Since a couple of days i got rid of SU6 DDC and the LINK II is directly connected to R26 via USB and the SQ improved a lot.

 

[Dandoudou]

It also depends on the OS of the streamer.
For instance, when used with Red OS, the Red is hot like a tube amp!
The heat is the result of heavy CPU load, which also provokes electrical noise.
With Gentoo/Diretta, the Red is just warm, its interior temperature is 40° C. The R26 is warmer when I touch it.

 

[DeckHiFi]

Great thoughts. So based on general thoughts/my own general summation: Looks like people prefer either:
- internal streamer on R26 vis Lan with FMC Mod.
- Holo Red into R26 via I2S or Lan.
- Stack Audio Link II into R26 via USB.

Do I have this right? Now we just need everyone to have all 3 side by side and do their own testing over 2 weeks and report back. : ) Also, any way to buy the stack audio from a US store?

 

[Dandoudou]

- Holo Red into R26 via I2S.

The Red also connects to the R26 through LAN.
Both the Red and the streamer of the R26 benefit of the same optical isolation of my streaming setup. (OpticalModule + EtherREGEN, both powered by a Keces P8).

 

[St12]

I guess one could argue the aluminium case to which the AC ground and other ground leads from the transformers etc are attached already does this - acts as an antenna/lightning rod for EMI/RFI, acknowledging it is only 60% as conductive than copper but there’s a lot greater surface area than the copper used by @St12 in his DIY shielding. Key I guess is both are properly grounded to sink away both noise and any inadvertently shorted AC.

Your general point though re the potential for noise on the ground plane is a really good one, one I’ve gone to town on addressing with very satisfying results. Including adding a separate ground rod for the hifi system via the Puritan Groundmaster (has a HPF for safety so it doesn’t pass AC frequency current to this alternate ground) and adding a Quartz Acoustics grounding box to ‘signal ground’ the R26 via its unused s/pdif output. Both additively quiet the background, improve dynamics and further reduce edginess or digital glare.

I did a mock-up of possible internal shielding a month or so back but didn’t at that time have confidence in my ability to implement without possible shorting with my flimsy copper tape and cardboard mock-up. Kudos to @St12 for just going ahead and doing it so nicely. I’m still waiting for a bunch of copper sheets of various thicknesses from AliX to arrive to give it a proper go. I’ve idly wondered about grounding the copper shielding to something other than the chassis & AC ground (eg another ground box) but felt grounding to AC earth is the prudent and safest course.

Incidentally I’d revise my shielding from my mock-up to cover that vertical circuit board on both sides as @St12 did. And likely add a lid to the ladder section to fully enclose it as he did. It’s really encouraging to hear it brought him the sort of benefits I thought it might! C’mon Aliexpress…

Be careful when putting not isolated copper shield inside your DAC. You can shorten its circuit.

After straight comparing my R26 with the shield to the R26 without it, I can say, that the shield works like if I switch to vinyl
Everything becomes smooth, extremely detailed and analog with the shield. It is especially obvious in very good system. The impact is more than an external clock does.

 

[Jake2]

Be careful when putting not isolated copper shield inside your DAC. You can shorten its circuit.

After straight comparing my R26 with the shield to the R26 without it, I can say, that the shield works like if I switch to vinyl
Everything becomes smooth, extremely detailed and analog with the shield. It is especially obvious in very good system. The impact is more than an external clock does.

Awesome! That is marvellous to hear. The risk of shortening it's circuit is indeed why I didn't proceed.

 

[BShaw]

Awesome! That is marvellous to hear. The risk of shortening it's circuit is indeed why I didn't proceed.

Why not just solder a lead from the shield to the ground pin of the IEC?

 

[ray12345]

I had the exact opposite experience.
My Silent Angel Munich m1T/R26 I2S combo was worse sq wise than the R26 internal.

I am surprised the Silent Angel was so bad, but it was not supposed to be a high end product anyway, one less product to consider in the market.

The best bargain so far I have tried is iFi Zen Stream with a cheap but high current 12V LPS. The chinese cheap LPS was just USD100, but it brings the Zen Stream to another level altogether. Don't believe in others telling you that the iFi Elite Power is even better than LPS, I have tried it, a USD100 cheap LPS beats it by a margin. The soundstage is just no match, much much bigger. That cheap LPS can produce 6A though, so get a big amp LPS.

 

[camrector]

I am surprised the Silent Angel was so bad, but it was not supposed to be a high end product anyway, one less product to consider in the market.

The best bargain so far I have tried is iFi Zen Stream with a cheap but high current 12V LPS. The chinese cheap LPS was just USD100, but it brings the Zen Stream to another level altogether. Don't believe in others telling you that the iFi Elite Power is even better than LPS, I have tried it, a USD100 cheap LPS beats it by a margin. The soundstage is just no match, much much bigger. That cheap LPS can produce 6A though, so get a big amp LPS.

I wouldn’t say it was bad at all. Just the internal R26 with FMCs and LAN was better than an external streamer and I2S.
Silent Angel used a LPS as well.