GUSTARD DAC-R26 Balanced Decoder R2R+1Bit Dual Native Decoding Music Bridge

[Deleeh]

Hello,
Today my Cat 6 Sftp copper cable arrived for the Fmc boxes.
The cable is meant for the bad side, logically.

The cable itself is nothing special, it is supposed to be 100% copper and is double shielded and is also a noname product for the server industry.
There is nothing more to it, and it cost just under 13€/$.

For the first hour, compared to the Cat cable I used before, where I don't know exactly which Cat version it is, it is noticeably better.

The somewhat masked (dark) has disappeared, and certain areas are subtly wider and punchier, a little fuller and a little more quiet over the Fmc boxes.
But it is much more in the subtle range, no quantum leaps.
When I do an A/B test between the two cables old/new.

It seems that what others have said that a Cat 6 really brings something, I would not have thought that it is noticeably better and also feels that way.


@Gabbo

Someone here on the forum had a similar problem and solved it themselves I think.
Would have the unit replaced if you have such problems and not do it yourself or spend even more unnecessary money on insulators and so on.As you are still probably within the return/exchange right.
You can still spend money on insulators if the second unit would still be afflicted with it.
Then you might have a problem in the house or when connecting the unit like power strip ect....
The coil whine is not normal.most here have had very few problems with their supplied unit.
I am not surprised that you get a sarcastic response to ASR and it is not very helpful in that regard.
It is better for your nerves to avoid going there.

 

[milkdudd]

I would like to inform the forum members that Shenzhen Audio and Aoshida have Gustard products 10% off (I was hoping for 20% but oh well) from March 20th-26th. Other brands are on sale too, some up to 20% off

 

[DeckHiFi]

^ Yea Cat6 cables are so good with this Dac that I'm a huge believer in this setup. I also wonder if it's just a great setup for Dacs in general.

 

[BShaw]

^ Yea Cat6 cables are so good with this Dac that I'm a huge believer in this setup. I also wonder if it's just a great setup for Dacs in general.

I have CAT8 Supra on both ends of my FMC setup, mostly because I had a meter of it sitting on the floor at the time. Why is the CAT6 supposed to be better? I'm not doubting, just curious.

 

[DeckHiFi]

I have CAT8 Supra on both ends of my FMC setup, mostly because I had a meter of it sitting on the floor at the time. Why is the CAT6 supposed to be better? I'm not doubting, just curious.

Sorry, not saying that at all. Just went based on what someone else said in this thread about Cat6 cables and tried them myself and fell in love with my mesh unit cat6 setup. Not saying anything is wrong with Cat8 and I don't know enough about it. But me and the other person seemed to really like it when we switched cables, but I had a subpar setup with cat5 before I switched.

 

[gammi]

I have CAT8 Supra on both ends of my FMC setup, mostly because I had a meter of it sitting on the floor at the time. Why is the CAT6 supposed to be better? I'm not doubting, just curious.

Cat 7 and 8 have a shared ground, Cat 6 doesn't. This means 7 and 8 can transmit noise from your router into your DAC's ground and Cat 6 can't.
If you look at the plug you'll notice 7 and 8 have a metal exterior and 6 doesn't, that's the ground.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

If Cat 8 CAN be susceptible MORE to noise, HOW is that it support faster speeds (40Gbos vs 10Gbps)? IF this is the case (noise), then it will NOT be rated by IEEE and IEA (and create such standards) to transmit such amount of data.

But who knows, years ago I thought USB cables are just 1 and 0s and have no affect in SQ. ... Well the FMC mod have best illustraded this. It's NOT just 1 and 0s... Maybe the same with Ethernet cables.

Hmm... Another experiment maybe...But so far I like my Supra 8s.

 

[sajunky]

If Cat 8 CAN be susceptible MORE to noise, HOW is that it support faster speeds (40Gbos vs 10Gbps)? IF this is the case (noise), then it will NOT be rated by IEEE and IEA (and create such standards) to transmit such amount of data.

There are different noises. Standards define transmission properties and noise on data lines. In a home installation you will never encounter data error during your lifetime. Set your link speed for 100Mbps or 1Mbps and is done.

On the other side, there is no specification for ground loops. Difficult to control, so standards do not cover this issue. But it is a noise that enters your DAC through the power supply, deteriorating SQ.

I was always advocating use UTP cable for number of reasons, here and other forums. If you don't trust me and want spend more, there is UTP version of CAT6a, difficult to find.

 

[mgsu]

Cat 7 and 8 have a shared ground, Cat 6 doesn't. This means 7 and 8 can transmit noise from your router into your DAC's ground and Cat 6 can't.
If you look at the plug you'll notice 7 and 8 have a metal exterior and 6 doesn't, that's the ground.

I dont think that it is a noise issue in general with Cat 7 and 8. You are right about the fact that these ethernet cables share a common ground with the attached devices.

The main problem with common grounds is that certain devices/circuits have a zero to ground architecture. This means that when you attach a Cat7 to these devices, then you change the zero to ground value/voltage of this devices, because of the common ground of ethernet cable.

When the zero to ground value of the devices gets changed, then the threshold value gets changed also.
Means the streamer or dac architecture relies on a certain zero to ground voltage, when you attach a cable with common ground to these devices, then the devices share the same zero to ground voltage, means the ground voltage is altered which affects the threshold value of the device which can deteriorate the SQ.

 

[Zaurux]

My best :
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=34267
But I think the production has been stopped (?)

But if you can send me 2/3 pieces 5ft from the US

 

[BShaw]

My best :
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=34267
But I think the production has been stopped (?)

But if you can send me 2/3 pieces 5ft from the US

PM me. They still have 5’

 

[sajunky]

The main problem with common grounds is that certain devices/circuits have a zero to ground architecture. This means that when you attach a Cat7 to these devices, then you change the zero to ground value/voltage of this devices, because of the common ground of ethernet cable.

Not true. All signal lines are differential according to standards. I am not aware of any network chip that would fail compliance on this issue. Besides, it wouldn't work, IHMO.

Therefore common ground noise is no issue for receivers, but it enters your DAC increasing jitter.

 

[mgsu]

Not true. All signal lines are differential according to standards. I am not aware of any network chip that would fail compliance on this issue. Besides, it wouldn't work, IHMO.

Therefore common ground noise is no issue for receivers, but it enters your DAC increasing jitter.

IEEE 802.3 and onwards defines single-ended, differential and optical signaling.

I understand your point but differential signaling has nothing to do with what i explained in my previous post.

There are devices with a floating ground where the circuit voltage is referenced to the floating ground.

When you share grounds with other devices through grounded cables, it can alter the voltage of the floating ground.
If it is a dac for example, it could alter the reproduction of the wave form which can cause jitter.

A dac reproduces the wave form based upon a threshold voltage.

You can change the floating ground voltage unwittingly by connecting to other devices over a grounded cable. If so, then you change also the threshold voltage of the dac.
If the threshold voltage is a little to high or to low, then the rise and fall of the wave form happens a little to early or to late which can cause jitter.

 

[BShaw]

IEEE 802.3 and onwards defines single-ended, differential and optical signaling.

I understand your point but differential signaling has nothing to do with what i explained in my previous post.

There are devices with a floating ground where the circuit voltage is referenced to the floating ground.

When you share grounds with other devices through grounded cables, it can alter the voltage of the floating ground.
If it is a dac for example, it could alter the reproduction of the wave form which can cause jitter.

A dac reproduces the wave form based upon a threshold voltage.

You can change the floating ground voltage unwittingly by connecting to other devices over a grounded cable. If so, then you change also the threshold voltage of the dac.
If the threshold voltage is a little to high or to low, then the rise and fall of the wave form happens a little to early or to late which can cause jitter.

This is all at the threshold of my being able to understand technically, but am I correct to think this concern should not apply to FMC conversion because the electrical connection between router and dac is isolated?

 

[mgsu]

This is all at the threshold of my being able to understand technically, but am I correct to think this concern should not apply to FMC conversion because the electrical connection between router and dac is isolated?

Yes, this is the main benefit of FMC.

Edit: it apply only if your switch has a FMC module and you go via optical into your switch. Means your switch is then isolated from your router. What happens after the switch when you use ethernet into other devices is another story.

If you go optical into the media converter and then via ethernet into your client device, then the client device is theoretical susceptible for zero to ground issues. It is wise to have your client device and the media converter to the same outlet and to tinker with Cat 6 and 7+8 to see which cable suits you best.