has anyone used both Bubble upnp and mconnect? I've heard bubble is the better of the two, and am considering buying a used Android tablet to use as my controller with the R26 (currently use an old ipad as the controller for my zenstream). Having used Apple stuff for over 15 years, I was shocked at how inexpensive Android tablets are compared to iPads!
With that said is adding the C18/U18 to the R26 a noticeable upgrade or would that just be a lot of money spent for little or no improvement. I still have about another week to decide on keeping or returning the C18. Thanks
I wonder if the older slower VONETS bridge will actually cope with the very high rates that the R26 accepts. It should as on paper it has twice the needed bandwidth, but real world testing is always another thing. Can you please over sample to the maximum data flow the R26 can accept 768kHz at 32bit. Any dropouts? Hows the sound with max oversampling?
I will have a bigger brother (VONETS AC1200 Dual Band 2.4GHz/5GHz WiFi Bridge) to compare it with as well but I cant imagine sound would be affected between the two.
Thanks for trying the newer faster Bridge as well. Its useful to compare. I agree with you thats its unlikely there will be a difference on sound. But surprises can happen. I would expect the older and slower model to sound the same or maybe a bit better. So I dont think the newer faster model will be useful. Why would an older model possibly be better? Lower power with less noise.
With the tests you have suggested its a bit tricky, my router is not close to the R26 at all so I would need to source long (ish) ethernet cable run it across the house and up the stairs... I will see what I can do.
I'm running VONETS VAR11N-300 Wifi Bridge off the Apple usb phone charger as I type this now... it sounds great! I will charge my power bank and hook it up later see if its going to make audiable difference and report back.
I wonder if the older slower VONETS bridge will actually cope with the very high rates that the R26 accepts. It should as on paper it has twice the needed bandwidth, but real world testing is always another thing. Can you please over sample to the maximum data flow the R26 can accept 768kHz at 32bit. Any dropouts? Hows the sound with max oversampling?
Thanks for trying the newer faster Bridge as well. Its useful to compare. I agree with you thats its unlikely there will be a difference on sound. But surprises can happen. I would expect the older and slower model to sound the same or maybe a bit better. So I dont think the newer faster model will be useful. Why would an older model possibly be better? Lower power with less noise.
What about moving the DAC and rig to the router and use the same LAN cable?
Thanks. I appreciate all your efforts.
One more request your welcome to ignore. Few have both Qobuz and a R26. Does the Qobuz app talk directly to the R26 on ethernet and run smoothly?
I am using Mconnect with Qobuz directly to R26 and its sounds great. I will be running Sonic Transporter Roon core, ultrarendu (7vdc) to R26 in a week or so to compare.
Interesting finding. I too compared the two but I have the C18 clock. With the C18 and U18, the X26 pro is able to produce more details than the R26.
Before your test, I would suppose the following :
1) just R26 vs X26, most would prefer R26
2) U18+R26 vs U18+X26, I would tend to think it is equal, with R26 being fuller in vocals and X26 having an edge in bass clarity
3) C18+U18, then X26 starts to shine
BTW, all Gustard products are very sensitive to power cables, did you try different power cables for the R26 and X26? which one did you use for the test?
I found Gustard DACs goes quite well with Audioquest cables. I have used other brands' power cables and the timbre becomes off entirely, making my X26 pro unlistenable, yes it is that much of difference ......
As a matter of interest did you try hooking the C18 up to the R26 directly in external clock mode then use the internal streaming capabilities of the R26? 'Theoretically' the best of both worlds in some respects.
I have a U18 and a LHY clock supposedly not dissimilar to the C18 (the combo is great, far outperforming the U18 alone) with an R26 arriving early next week. Will be testing a number of combinations as you've done, including against another pretty strong delta sigma Dac, the SMSL VMV D2 (AK4499).
I will be getting my R26 today and is planing to run it with BubbleUPNP however I don't understand technically why it should sound differently compared to mConnct as the app is just sending control messages and the streaming goes directly from Tidal/QoBuz to R26 and not via the phone. After starting the music you can turn-off the phone and the music still plays. So unless the mConnect sends/setup different bitrates to streaming service than Bubbl then it should sound the same.
Can you see difference streaming resolution on R26 when using the 2 different apps?
I will be getting my R26 today and is planing to run it with BubbleUPNP however I don't understand technically why it should sound differently compared to mConnct as the app is just sending control messages and the streaming goes directly from Tidal/QoBuz to R26 and not via the phone. After starting the music you can turn-off the phone and the music still plays. So unless the mConnect sends/setup different bitrates to streaming service than Bubbl then it should sound the same.
Can you see difference streaming resolution on R26 when using the 2 different apps?
You can choose in BubbleUPnP to cache either Tidal or Qobuz and send to R26. It caches for certain duration, not whole song. You kill the app it will play for some time and then stop. Even you choose this cache option, BubbleUPnP still sounds different compared to MConnect.
I have stopped questioning logic after playing with CAS, not all the things seem to make sense, but the fact remains such things do make a difference, believe in your ears and nothing else. It is like questioning why songs stored on NAS sound different from songs stored on computers, theoretically they are just data, '0' and '1', as long as it is the same data it should sound the same, but the fact is they sound different .....
As a matter of interest did you try hooking the C18 up to the R26 directly in external clock mode then use the internal streaming capabilities of the R26? 'Theoretically' the best of both worlds in some respects.
I have a U18 and a LHY clock supposedly not dissimilar to the C18 (the combo is great, far outperforming the U18 alone) with an R26 arriving early next week. Will be testing a number of combinations as you've done, including against another pretty strong delta sigma Dac, the SMSL VMV D2 (AK4499).
I did try that as well, putting C18 to R26 improves the resolution and 3D soundstage. How it compares with U18+C18+R26 is difficult to say, as the sound is quite different since the whole connection infrastructure is different.
In my system, U18+C18+R26 is more detailed, but less of the R2R feel to the sound. C18+R26 direct network connection is less detailed, but more lush R2R feeling. Personally, I prefer direct network connection as this gives the R2R feel which most people liked, and the R26 is not about absolute resolution anyway, it is the music feel it gives that R26 attracts you.
I finally have my setup complete outside minor things I'd like to add (op-amps + power cable + xlr interconnect + gustard bnc cable upgrades).
LHY OCK-1 10Mhz Clock arrived and I've connected it to both the U18 DDC + R26 Dac, since I ordered 2 BNC cables. I've been using Qobuz mostly and I definitely feel a large improvement over my last setup (Topping a90/d90 mqa stack). HD800S seems to sound much more well rounded w/ added bass that it was desperately lacking with my prior stack. Hifiman HE1000SE highly detailed as well.
Lately, been trying out Roon + Audirvana during trial periods for both. Not sure I will keep them. Mostly wanted to test out the R26 over LAN, but have not been able to get any audio out of R26 when in LAN mode (i'm up to date with usb drivers + gustarender firmware). Never used a network streamer before, so I'm not sure of the proper connections. All I did was connect a network cable from my router to my R26. I assume I need Bubble UPnP and set my R26 as a server, so that Roon can point to it since all Roon sees is the U18 via usb to pc? Sorry for the rookie questions, first time using any of these features for audio. any help is greatly appreciated. happy listening + testing
#1 With Roon, you need to go to Settings -> Audio -> (you might need to scroll down) -> Click "enable" on Gustarender-1v3
Roon will not automatically enable it, you need to manually enable it, for it to show up as an endpoint for Roon to play to.
(this isn't just R26 thing, this is just how Roon works)
#2 Audirvana only way to send audio to R26 LAN is UPNP, which out of the box works.
In Audirvana, lower right, there is the endpoint selection area. Click into it, you should see the UPNP Gustarender to select.
I own both Roon and Audirvana (In fact I own Audirvana 3.5 old version, and the new Audirvana Studio).
I've gotten them all to work with R26 LAN effortlessly, providing you fallow the instructions above.
#1 With Roon, you need to go to Settings -> Audio -> (you might need to scroll down) -> Click "enable" on Gustarender-1v3
Roon will not automatically enable it, you need to manually enable it, for it to show up as an endpoint for Roon to play to.
(this isn't just R26 thing, this is just how Roon works)
#2 Audirvana only way to send audio to R26 LAN is UPNP, which out of the box works.
In Audirvana, lower right, there is the endpoint selection area. Click into it, you should see the UPNP Gustarender to select.
I own both Roon and Audirvana (In fact I own Audirvana 3.5 old version, and the new Audirvana Studio).
I've gotten them all to work with R26 LAN effortlessly, providing you fallow the instructions above.
comzee - are you saying that Audirvana has a built in PnP? If so does this mean that I can use my ipad as a controller and send the stream directly to the R26 via LAN cable? I apologize for the newbie question but some of this network teck stuff is new for me. I was planning to use Bubble (with an Android pad)or Mconnect, but if I can get a more premium interface like Audirvana that's preferable.
comzee - are you saying that Audirvana has a built in PnP? If so does this mean that I can use my ipad as a controller and send the stream directly to the R26 via LAN cable?
#1 With Roon, you need to go to Settings -> Audio -> (you might need to scroll down) -> Click "enable" on Gustarender-1v3
Roon will not automatically enable it, you need to manually enable it, for it to show up as an endpoint for Roon to play to.
(this isn't just R26 thing, this is just how Roon works)
#2 Audirvana only way to send audio to R26 LAN is UPNP, which out of the box works.
In Audirvana, lower right, there is the endpoint selection area. Click into it, you should see the UPNP Gustarender to select.
I own both Roon and Audirvana (In fact I own Audirvana 3.5 old version, and the new Audirvana Studio).
I've gotten them all to work with R26 LAN effortlessly, providing you fallow the instructions above.
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