[Jake2]

You guys!

To temporarily dampen down the temptation to seriously overcapitalise on clocks & switches, I just pulled the trigger on the Netflix Netgear switch. It's been in my shopping cart for a while, just needed a push. Will power with a spare Ifi Power X. FMCs next...

So the Netgear GS018E switch arrived today. I plugged it in this evening like so, cat 5/6 cables used throughout.

Cable modem > wifi router > Netgear switch (+ Ifi Power X) > LHY switch* > R26 (*Mac Mini Roon/HQP server also connected to the LHY)

Damn! Soundstage depth increased yet again while focus tightened up a lot as did bass and lower midrange. The latter two I now realise by contrast was previously a little overly warm and bloomed (I'd thought it was my LFD amp's doing, not only that it seems), all while retaining the easy to listen to sweet tonality with nary an edge Ive achieved of late. There's so much going on in the soundstage now on almost every song it's so cool.

Takeaways:
- yet another big bang for buck system tweak
- Somehow (don't ask me for a technical reason why I haven't the foggiest) inserting a second switch, at least this particular one, in my system, really helps. Even though it's not doing any obvious galvanic isolation like an FMC would.
- the R26's internal streamer and DAC sections just keep scaling up with a better and better ethernet feed. Very cool.
- The realization is dawning there may be no end to these tweaks

 

[Dandoudou]

Even though it's not doing any obvious galvanic isolation like an FMC would.

There's a galvanic isolation in the switches as well.

 

[sajunky]

There's a galvanic isolation in the switches as well.

When UTP cables are used. STP cables provide shield with a ground connection. If not terminated it acts as an antennae.

 

[Jake2]

When UTP cables are used. STP cables provide shield with a ground connection. If not terminated it acts as an antennae.

And I'd I trust my use of Cat 5/6 (Unshielded Twisted Pair) is in line with your recommendations here?

 

[sajunky]

And I'd I trust my use of Cat 5/6 (Unshielded Twisted Pair) is in line with your recommendations here?

Yes, exactly.

 

[Dandoudou]

When UTP cables are used. STP cables provide shield with a ground connection. If not terminated it acts as an antennae.

Correct.

And I'd I trust my use of Cat 5/6 (Unshielded Twisted Pair) is in line with your recommendations here?

When you'll set the FMCs, the best is to use cat.5 and 6 cables all over your LAN up to the fiber.
After the fiber, you need a single Ethernet cable to connect the FMC to the streamer, or two cables in you use a switch between the FMC and the streamer. These two cables can be audiophile Cat.7 or Cat.8, if your audio devices are all plugged to the same electrical strip, same wall outlet. If they do, there's no risk of ground loops.

 

[sajunky]

Correct.


When you'll set the FMCs, the best is to use cat.5 and 6 cables all over your LAN up to the fiber.
After the fiber, you need a single Ethernet cable to connect the FMC to the streamer, or two cables in you use a switch between the FMC and the streamer. These two cables can be audiophile Cat.7 or Cat.8, if your audio devices are all plugged to the same electrical strip, same wall outlet. If they do, there's no risk of ground loops.

I didn't analyse your setup, so this comment may be improper, but my preference is against using fiber converters. Especially single mode where is a laser diode. This is a pulse light modulation that put stress on the power supply, spread over power supply wires, so there is a combined EMI and ground loop generation, even when plugged to the same socket extension. So there is no network generated ground loops, but it sucks from the above perspective.

Much less obstructive is a spread sprectrum modulation of WiFi, but not internal in the DAC, as it is to close. A simple $10 300n WiFi extender (the one fitted with a mains plug - no power cable) will separate HiFi from network related ground loops and do not have a negative effect of fiber converters. No other network equipment is on my audio power extension.

I have both Netgear and TPLink 8-port switches, they do good job, but WiFi extender on the short UTP cable (up to 3m) is always the best solution.

 

[Dandoudou]

I didn't analyse your setup, so this comment may be improper, but my preference is against using fiber converters. Especially single mode where is a laser diode. This is a pulse light modulation that put stress on the power supply, spread over power supply wires, so there is a combined EMI and ground loop generation, even when plugged to the same socket extension. So there is no network generated ground loops, but it sucks from the above perspective.

Much less obstructive is a spread sprectrum modulation of WiFi, but not internal in the DAC, as it is to close. A simple $10 300n WiFi extender (the one fitted with a mains plug - no power cable) will separate HiFi from network related ground loops and do not have a negative effect of fiber converters. No other network equipment is on my audio power extension.

I have both Netgear and TPLink 8-port switches, they do good job, but WiFi extender on the short UTP cable (up to 3m) is always the best solution.

I'm using an optical isolation for two years already, and you can believe me that I tried countless possibilities.
At the present, put together, the price of the components and their LPSs exceeds the price of the R26.
The converters are powered by LPSs that can not be stressed by the modest power consumption of these FMCs, and all the gear and cables are well protected from EMI.

But you don't need to take me as an example. Check this thread, and you'll see that everybody reports a great improvement even with basic cheap converters from Amazon.

 

[camrector]

I didn't analyse your setup, so this comment may be improper, but my preference is against using fiber converters. Especially single mode where is a laser diode. This is a pulse light modulation that put stress on the power supply, spread over power supply wires, so there is a combined EMI and ground loop generation, even when plugged to the same socket extension. So there is no network generated ground loops, but it sucks from the above perspective.

Much less obstructive is a spread sprectrum modulation of WiFi, but not internal in the DAC, as it is to close. A simple $10 300n WiFi extender (the one fitted with a mains plug - no power cable) will separate HiFi from network related ground loops and do not have a negative effect of fiber converters. No other network equipment is on my audio power extension.

I have both Netgear and TPLink 8-port switches, they do good job, but WiFi extender on the short UTP cable (up to 3m) is always the best solution.

Wifi extender =good
Wifi extender plus fiber convertors = better.
Using quality linear power supplies for a 5v convertor is not going to stress it at all. And as long as signal is passing through the fiber, EMI is a non issue.

@Dandoudou why unshielded Cat 5/6 before the FMC?
In my set up I have
Wifi extender LAN> Switch>FBMs>R26.
30cm Cat8 used throughout.
Everything has linear power supplies and/or is plugged into my Puritan 156.

 

[sajunky]

And as long as signal is passing through the fiber, EMI is a non issue.

EMI is generated on the connections of your power supply, so... not true.

 

[camrector]

EMI is generated on the connections of your power supply, so... not true.

You are talking about 1 connection on a linear powered FBM that has a 10in quadruple shielded Cat 8 cable going into the R26. Non issue.

 

[THUB]

I'm using an optical isolation for two years already, and you can believe me that I tried countless possibilities.
At the present, put together, the price of the components and their LPSs exceeds the price of the R26.
The converters are powered by LPSs that can not be stressed by the modest power consumption of these FMCs, and all the gear and cables are well protected from EMI.

But you don't need to take me as an example. Check this thread, and you'll see that everybody reports a great improvement even with basic cheap converters from Amazon.

I'm one that found the FMCs with the Finisar AOC sounded much worse than my wired network. I returned the FMC boxes, and I have TP-Link boxes coming tomorrow to try it one more time. I don't understand why I the fiber sound so bad for me.

 

[Dandoudou]

@Dandoudou why unshielded Cat 5/6 before the FMC?
In my set up I have
Wifi extender LAN> Switch>FBMs>R26.
30cm Cat8 used throughout.
Everything has linear power supplies and/or is plugged into my Puritan 156.

On the dirty side, before the first FMC (electrical > optical), either wifi extender and/or cat.5/6 are good.
There's a risk in using shielded cat.7/8 cables on this part of the LAN, because they can potentially create ground loops. But it depends, of course, to which groundings the devices of the dirty side are connected.
And once the FMCs are set, the RFI induced noise on the cables will be removed anyway. So, there's no benefit in buying expensive audiophile Ethernet cables for the dirty side of the LAN.

 

[Dandoudou]

I'm one that found the FMCs with the Finisar AOC sounded much worse than my wired network. I returned the FMC boxes, and I have TP-Link boxes coming tomorrow to try it one more time. I don't understand why I the fiber sound so bad for me.

There must be a reason for that, either in the topology of your LAN or in the way you set the FMCs.
I'll be absent from the forum in the coming days, but if you'll post more details about your streaming system in the beginning of next week, I'll try to understand with you what should be done.

 

[camrector]

On the dirty side, before the first FMC (electrical > optical), either wifi extender and/or cat.5/6 are good.
There's a risk in using shielded cat.7/8 cables on this part of the LAN, because they can potentially create ground loops. But it depends, of course, to which groundings the devices of the dirty side are connected.
And once the FMCs are set, the RFI induced noise on the cables will be removed anyway. So, there's no benefit in buying expensive audiophile Ethernet cables for the dirty side of the LAN.

Gotcha
My dirty side shares nothing with the clean side as far a connections go.