[norbert2nd]

... you are right, my eyes are getting old: Data and LRCK lines seem to be inverted. Could be that Gustard did it wrong two times: Once on the sender's and once on the receiver's side which nulls out in the U12/X12 combo.
I have not compared I2S against SPDIF but USB via X12 vs. USB via U12 and HDMI out to X12.
The difference is subtle but nevertheless something which you do not want to give away. Objects in the soundstage are more 3D vs. 2D-projections. Just more live-like.
Not to start another cable discussion, but that is also depending on the cable. I'm using an Audioquest Chocolate HDMI cable (1 m) vs. a generic HDMI cable (30 cm). The "normal" HDMI was really no comparison.
With the "normal" HDMI cable USB on the X12 is clearly superior.

 

[abartels]

 
Hi Ben, Can you confirm this is the current U12 HDMI output pinout?  Maybe it would be good to make a clear and specific request to Gustard to match some standard, or at least get their point of view on why they are using the current positions. If not possible/desired to change the firmware, maybe they can offer a crossover cable or adapter for various devices.

+1 I 100% agree with that 

 

[motberg]

  ......................
I have not compared I2S against SPDIF but USB via X12 vs. USB via U12 and HDMI out to X12.
The difference is subtle but nevertheless something which you do not want to give away. Objects in the soundstage are more 3D vs. 2D-projections. Just more live-like.
Not to start another cable discussion, but that is also depending on the cable. I'm using an Audioquest Chocolate HDMI cable (1 m) vs. a generic HDMI cable (30 cm). The "normal" HDMI was really no comparison.
With the "normal" HDMI cable USB on the X12 is clearly superior.

Thanks - that is really interesting and seems to be similar to what I have been reading in other threads... especially interesting that I2S with an external DDC can meet or beat what I assume is a pretty good USB internal implementation. Also thanks to verify the importance of the HDMI cable, but as you mention best to keep that issue quiet lest some of the bits-are-bits crowd are lurking nearby..

 

 

[Arnotts]

Just compared the LCD-X's from the Gustard H10 + X12 stack to the Matrix M-Stage amp and M-Stage DAC stack (note this is not the built-in DAC on the M-Stage amp, but the separate, more expensive DAC unit).
 
I used seven test tracks:
 
Enya - Caribbean Blue
Radiohead - Subterranean Homesick Alien
How to Destroy Angels - Ice Age (deadmau5 Remix)
Green Day - Uptight
Knife Party - Boss Mode
Michael Jackson - Rock With You
ODESZA - All We Need
 
I wrote down my thoughts as I listened to each track on each setup. They were mostly the same across all tracks, with some songs excelling even more in particular areas because of how they were mixed/mastered. I volume-matched both stacks BY EAR, not with any measurements. All of the following thoughts are RELATIVE to the other stack that I am comparing the songs on.
 
SOUND COMPARISON:
 
It was pretty consistent that the M-Stage stack sounded smoother and more forgiving. There was less micro-detail on each sound. The soundstage wasn't as well defined - it felt smaller and less 3D/holographic. There was some depth to the soundstage, but not much.
 
Imaging was blurrier relative to the Gustard stack - sounds were less separated and didn't have as much space in the soundstage. Bass was not as deep, as punchy, as tight or as textured compared to the Gustard stack.
 
Voices are a little more forward and are smoother. The M-Stage stack makes music sound more musical - you don't hear much of the micro-detail that can potentially expose flaws in the recordings.
 
It has this smooth, organic feel. The Green Day track in particular really sounded natural and musical on the M-Stages.
 
The Gustard stack is a step up in terms of imaging/soundstage, overall resolution, frequency extension and "impact" (this thing hits very hard - you can really hear and feel the power and dynamics of elements in songs).
 
It feels like the song is projected out in a holographic soundstage, with excellent imaging as sounds are placed coherently around your head. There is excellent width and depth to the soundstage. I always found tracks were very engaging listening to the H10 and X12, they had a lot of energy as well as space. There is a great sense of listening to music in a room, with it being played live and in person.
 
Bass had excellent power and texture. Vocals sounded very well positioned in the mix, sounding like they were being projected from out in center stage in front of you.
 
Not everything was completely a step up from the M-Stage stack, though. The level of detail at some points edged on harsh. The vocals in Rock With You, when Michael is really intensely singing, can have this almost-harsh feel. It's not so bad that I would quite call it harsh, but it's definitely not as smooth as I would like for pure enjoyment.
 
This is simply relative to the M-Stage stack, though, so I still absolutely love listening to ANY song on this setup . This may be something that will be mitigated with more time using the X12 as well, as I've only had it for about 2 weeks now.
 
I also compared the stacks to the Xonar Essence STX with its built-in headphone amp. It sounded OK - to a listener that was not aware of what good imaging, good soundstage and proper bass extension/texture sounds like, it would even do very well. The soundstage was quite 2D and flat, with decent width but no depth. The sound was clean and clear, with instruments sounding good and tonally accurate.
 
Bass was looser and less textured than with the M-Stages and significantly looser than with the Gustards, which meant that it had less presence as well. The Xonar was also not as edgy as the H10 + X12 right now, but not as smooth as the M-Stage stack. The Essence STX would be a pretty decent choice for non-critical listening, as hearing those other aspects of sound requires the user to have a lot more focus and/or experience. Listening to music on the Xonar while playing a game or doing other activities would be fine for me.
 
I've also got the Gustard U12 coming in, so if the X12 doesn't smooth out with more use then hopefully the U12 helps it a bit there.
 
Having said that, I hope that little bit of extra glare/edginess isn't part of certain recordings that the LCD-X's + Gustard stack is now revealing.

 

[stuartmc]

   
I've also got the Gustard U12 coming in, so if the X12 doesn't smooth out with more use then hopefully the U12 helps it a bit there.
 
Having said that, I hope that little bit of extra glare/edginess isn't part of certain recordings that the LCD-X's + Gustard stack is now revealing.

Nice job here Arnotts!  I appreciate your responding to my request for a comparison to the M-Stage gear.
 
In my own experience, the "glare/edginess" was not inherent to the X12.  It was only part of the break in process and some isolation issues I had when stacking things up initially.  Somewhere in the 50 to 100 hours mark, it disappeared. Admittedly, it was probably aided by my very careful attention to keeping the X12 away from the big emi/rfi sources, using very good power supply filtering and always having at least an hour of warm up before listening.  
 
The X12/H10 stack, as you noted, is very highly resolving and will speak the truth about the recording.  I know the recording is the culprit because I have some very high res recordings that sound incredibly life-like with no glare/edge whatsoever. I have others that are just "meh" and then some that are clearly over-processed, compressed and rather irritating.  Fortunately for me, I was on the "list" for several audiophile labels (Chesky, Sheffield Lab and Reference Recordings, to name a few) and the vast majority of my music collection sounds like aural manna on the X12/H10 with the HE-560 cans.  I think there is a trade off here - the life-like soundstaging and imaging we love only shows up when very low level information, cues if you will, peak up out of the noise floor.  That kind of low level resolution will also unmask any flaws there are in the recording itself.  I frequently find myself saying, "I love this music, but why oh why did they record it like this."  There is hope. I recently listened to Jeff Beck's "Emotion and Commotion" on the ATCO label which is a division of Warner Music and it is not only great music, but it is superbly recorded. Pretty cool for a major label. On the other hand, I listened to Lee Ritenour's  "6 String Theory" on the Concord records label and although it has fantastic compositions, the recording exhibits some of what you and I would call "glare and edge"...not a lot, but enough to diminish the aural pleasure appreciably.... sigh..... What's an audiophile to do?!

 

[Arnotts]

No worries, Stu. Happy to give back to the Gustard threads by adding my own impressions.
 
I've been listening to the H10 + X12 more and I think in the past day or so, it has smoothed out a little more. The sound doesn't make me think of the words "glare/edgy/harsh" at all, like it did previously. The sound was excellent before, but the extra smoothness makes it even more musically pleasing.
 
And I completely agree, having a setup as resolving as the Gustard stack along with a pair of high end headphones really shows you the differences in the recording quality of tracks. Some really shine and become even more incredible, while others are relatively flat and blurry.
 
I think (and hope) we're seeing a bit of a resurgence in the importance of sound quality for the average music listener, which should hopefully have a trickle down effect with record labels wanting to cater to the new demand for quality.

 

[mamba315]

Does anyone know about the flagship head amp? Is it a real product in development or just a silly rumor?

 

[ansi]

Does anyone know about the flagship head amp? Is it a real product in development or just a silly rumor?

 
X20 and a balanced amp are coming. Asked Gustard directly. I'm meeting them this week so I'll have more info soon.

 

[mamba315]

If you get a chance, I'm curious if the balanced amp is intended to offer higher sound quality for all phones, or simply more power for the HE6/K1000 crowd?

 

[ansi]

So, I met with Gustard the other day in Shenzhen, with both the head of sales and the head engineer. I'll have a longer write up on them next week for you guys, but here are some spoilers:
 
- For all you DIY guys out there, they'd be happy to answer any technical questions and help modders etc. but can't speak any English. When I have time I'll help out with that bit. 
- X20 is coming... and the first batch is only 200 units. Also, it's huge. Like twice the size of X12.
- A balanced amp is coming, and to @mamba315 no, it's not for the HE6 crowd, as there is another prototype for them. That one may never see production though since it's very heavy and would be too expensive to ship to US where most of the HE6 owners are.
- Good news coming up for international Gustard fans as they will start selling directly to customers abroad and handling warranty themselves. They'll extend that warranty to devices bought from third parties before.
 
Coming up: info on the company, how it got started, who are the people behind it, what plans they have for this year, some insights on differences between Chinese and Western headphone/hifi scene, how to get their products for reviews, and of course more info on the products. 

 

[abartels]

  So, I met with Gustard the other day in Shenzhen, with both the head of sales and the head engineer. I'll have a longer write up on them next week for you guys, but here are some spoilers:
 
- For all you DIY guys out there, they'd be happy to answer any technical questions and help modders etc. but can't speak any English. When I have time I'll help out with that bit. 
- X20 is coming... and the first batch is only 200 units. Also, it's huge. Like twice the size of X12.
- A balanced amp is coming, and to @mamba315 no, it's not for the HE6 crowd, as there is another prototype for them. That one may never see production though since it's very heavy and would be too expensive to ship to US where most of the HE6 owners are.
- Good news coming up for international Gustard fans as they will start selling directly to customers abroad and handling warranty themselves. They'll extend that warranty to devices bought from third parties before.
 
Coming up: info on the company, how it got started, who are the people behind it, what plans they have for this year, some insights on differences between Chinese and Western headphone/hifi scene, how to get their products for reviews, and of course more info on the products. 

 
Hi Ansi,
 
Thanks for this great info!!
Can't wait for the follow-up
 
Btw did you manage to get schematics of U12?
 
Can we opt-in for a X20?
 
Regards,
Alex

 

[SodaBoy]

  So, I met with Gustard the other day in Shenzhen, with both the head of sales and the head engineer. I'll have a longer write up on them next week for you guys, but here are some spoilers:
 
- For all you DIY guys out there, they'd be happy to answer any technical questions and help modders etc. but can't speak any English. When I have time I'll help out with that bit. 
- X20 is coming... and the first batch is only 200 units. Also, it's huge. Like twice the size of X12.
- A balanced amp is coming, and to @mamba315 no, it's not for the HE6 crowd, as there is another prototype for them. That one may never see production though since it's very heavy and would be too expensive to ship to US where most of the HE6 owners are.
- Good news coming up for international Gustard fans as they will start selling directly to customers abroad and handling warranty themselves. They'll extend that warranty to devices bought from third parties before.
 
Coming up: info on the company, how it got started, who are the people behind it, what plans they have for this year, some insights on differences between Chinese and Western headphone/hifi scene, how to get their products for reviews, and of course more info on the products. 

Haha it's our man in Shenzhen reporting. Thanks for the news. I am more interested in the balanced amp now, hope they use something better than a volume pot.

 

[Benny-x]

  So, I met with Gustard the other day in Shenzhen, with both the head of sales and the head engineer. I'll have a longer write up on them next week for you guys, but here are some spoilers: 

That's really awesome that you worked out all the timing for this and were actually able to meet up with them. Even if it was something of interest for you, I think a lot of other people out there, me included, are really grateful for your efforts. Thanks a lot, Ansi.
 
Quote:

  - For all you DIY guys out there, they'd be happy to answer any technical questions and help modders etc. but can't speak any English. When I have time I'll help out with that bit. 

Even if they can't speak English, that's awesome news! It'd be cool if we could get the schematics like Abartels mentioned, but even if we can't, the fact that they'd help us out with modding questions is huge! And thanks for offering to help with this. And for those of us that can't speak Chinese, as funny as it might sound, I've had amazingly good results with google translate when trouble shooting technical issues with Chinese companies. Even if it's not perfect, they tend to get the idea. 
 

 
- X20 is coming... and the first batch is only 200 units. Also, it's huge. Like twice the size of X12.

The X20 is supposed to come out in May or so, isn't it? I wonder what their final price really will be AND what DAC chip it's going to use. Paralleled ESS 9018? I'm happy to hear it's big, I don't have any space limits and tend to like the big and chunky components. The X20 wouldn't happen to have one of those fancy, outboard power supplies, would it? I'm also a big fan of those.
 

 
- A balanced amp is coming, and to @mamba315 no, it's not for the HE6 crowd, as there is another prototype for them. That one may never see production though since it's very heavy and would be too expensive to ship to US where most of the HE6 owners are.

Great... Just what I needed to hear. Not that I need a new amp in any way, but if there was something new and special and balanced I might have to take a look. Damn. As for the second part about a more powerful amp, since I sit here in China I might happily take something with more power if it ever released domestically. 
 

 
- Good news coming up for international Gustard fans as they will start selling directly to customers abroad and handling warranty themselves. They'll extend that warranty to devices bought from third parties before.

That's really awesome news. Even for us non-international buyers it's good to hear that Gustard is building their own brand and will soon start handling things themselves. It'll definitely make for not such a complicated process in getting a hold of them. And they may even make up a "news page" for up coming items for us all to gawk at. 
 

  Coming up: info on the company, how it got started, who are the people behind it, what plans they have for this year, some insights on differences between Chinese and Western headphone/hifi scene, how to get their products for reviews, and of course more info on the products. 

I'm really looking forward to your more in-depth followup. It's fun to find this stuff out and I'll be happy to learn how to keep a better eye out for their upcoming stuff. 

 

[MoatsArt]

Hope to join the crew of SS Gustard very soon via a Massdrop H10.  Midshipman MoatsArt reporting for duty, Sir.

 

[auvgeek]

Thanks for the info, ansi. Looking forward to your longer update.
 
I'm very interested in the X20 and new balanced amp. And very curious how they will compare to the corresponding Schiit products. Also curious how Gustard's pricing will change when they start selling direct.