[iamdone]

Audiofiler thanks for the informative comparision. I only had the stock cable version of the GS1000 and the PS-1 is clearly superior in my eyes. Besides getting the sound signature perfect, I actually prefer it's soundstage. I truely like the up close sound.

The GS1000 soundstage was amazing on some recordings but on the rock genre, it almost took away from the experience. It's became more of a distraction. At first I enjoyed it because it was new and different but in the end it wasn't what I really wanted.

The bigger problem was they just didn't work for my whole collection. I've seen many people complain as the upgrade that some of their music doesn't sound good any more and blame the recordings. I don't know if this is true but why would you upgrade if it made things worse. That's how I felt about the GS1000. It made some things better but it also made a lot of things worse. There was maybe two albums that didn't sound good with my RS-1. With the GS1000, it was maybe one in ten songs. Then I kept thinking maybe I needed to upgrade and tune my system around the GS1000. I tried this with amps and it didn't fix my situation. Then thought about my source but figured I just wasn't meant for the GS1000. I might as well go back to the RS-1.

While looking for a used RS-1, I saw several PS-1s available and figured it wasn't a huge difference if I sold my GS1000. Anyway, the PS-1 sounds so amazing on everything I've tried. I went back to all the songs that were off on the GS1000, and they sound perfect with the PS-1. From the slow stuff to punk, it's all great. It's noticeably better.

I don't doubt the black dragon upgrade would improve the GS1000, but I still think the soundstage would bother me. I also wonder if it would delivery the mids I like. There's a certain sound the RS-1 had with the bowls and the PS-1 also has that sound. When I hear the electric guitar, it just sounds right. Actually everything sound right with the PS-1.

Keep in my mind my comments are under the influence of the newest of it all. When I first got the GS1000, I was actually underwhelmed and thought break in would in improve things. I really liked the bass and layering but the overall sound, especially in the mids to highs weren't as good as the RS-1. I then justified it that it was worth sacraficing for the new features the GS1000 offered. Once I found the layering more of a distraction, the GS1000 had nothing to offer except bass. That was the one issue I had if I went back to the RS-1. The PS-1 solved that. With the PS-1, it's simply amazing right from the start.

 

[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone Well I just got my PS-1 today. I sold the GS1000 yesterday so I can't do a direct comparison. The PS-1 is new and only has less than an 1 hour so I'd imagine they will only get better. I have no doubt that I made the right decision. These are the ultimate Grado. When I got the GS1000, my wife gave them a listen and said, "Wow, these sound more open". When she just tried the PS-1, she said "Holy crap, these sound *****ing amazing". She was continuously amazed and then said I better take them away from her or she wouldn't give them back. She did say she was going want to listen again in an hour. She was listening to The Clash and Joe Strummer, her favorite artist. I'm still listening to the The Clash and it has never sounded better. The main problem with the GS1000 I had is I couldn't get it to quite sound right with all the different setups I tried. It would sound amazing on a few songs and then slightly off on another. It was either the balance or the soundstage just didn't sound right. Some parts just sounded too distant for my taste. I had the same problem with the hd-650. I liked the GS1000 much better than the hd-650 but it still didn't seem like the right choice for rock music. Something was missing compared to the RS-1. The PS-1 seem to keep all the fun of the RS-1 but just take it to another level. You can say maybe it was my source or cables or amp but the PS-1 in the same setup is just amazing. It could also be they're new and after a while I might change my mind like I did with the GS1000. That could be true but I doubt it and have a feeling these are staying. I think I'm finally done with my search.

You've just bumped up the price on used PS-1 by about $400

Congrats, from everything I've read I'd probably really love the PS-1 as well.

 

[robm321]

It sounds like you prefer the RS-1 intimacy over the GS-1000, especially with the music you listen to (Rock based). So, the PS-1 sounds like an improved RS-1? That makes sense for what you listen to. If I were mainly listening to rock. I would pick the RS-1 as well... or the PS-1 assuming I feel the same after hearing it.

I think if you like Symphonies and other natural (non electronic/amplified) recordings, then the soundstage of the GS-1000 gets more important since a symphony crunched into a small soundstage like the RS-1 just sounds congested. While most rock, punk, etc is mixed where the instruments are usually placed in unusual places by the audio engineer (not a natural soundstage like a lot of jazz/classical recordings). This would be accentuated on the GS-1000.

Does this make sense? Good discussion btw, audiofiler and iamdone.

How about overall?

I mean the PS-1 looks like it goes for about $1,400 used when you can find them (I see none available anywhere currently) with hard to tame bass, RS-1 like small soundstage, less comfortable (heavy).

The GS-1000 seems to have a bigger soundstage, very comfortable, $995 brand new (w/BD cable closer in price to PS-1 but still new compared to used).

That sounds like a huge price to pay for just a better midrange

Just seeking answers until I can hear them

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak You've just bumped up the price on used PS-1 by about $400 Congrats, from everything I've read I'd probably really love the PS-1 as well.

Thanks. Sorry I'm not that good at describing the sound. They are plenty of reviews that do that great. It's just the next level of quality. There's a clearity I've never heard before and you can hear the tone and texture of all the instruments and voices. It sounds almost like my whole collection has been replaced by a whole new set of remastered recordings.

With the GS1000, I become facinated with the layers but I never had a hold crap moment with the sound itself. I never thought they were clearly better than the RS-1 on sound alone. I could tell instantly that these beat both by far.

I have another head-fier coming over this weekend with the GS1000 and RS-1, so we'll be able to a direct comparison. Plus you can get another person's opinion. I never trust one person's opinion either. You got to factor personal taste and type of music into their review. Plus their previous preferences.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 It sounds like you prefer the RS-1 intimacy over the GS-1000, especially with the music you listen to (Rock based). So, the PS-1 sounds like an improved RS-1? That makes sense for what you listen to. If I were mainly listening to rock. I would pick the RS-1 as well... or the PS-1 assuming I feel the same after hearing it. I think if you like Symphonies and other natural (non electronic/amplified) recordings, then the soundstage of the GS-1000 gets more important since a symphony crunched into a small soundstage like the RS-1 just sounds congested. While most rock, punk, etc is mixed where the instruments are usually placed in unusual places by the audio engineer (not a natural soundstage like a lot of jazz/classical recordings). This would be accentuated on the GS-1000. Does this make sense? Good discussion btw, audiofiler and iamdone. How about overall? I mean the PS-1 looks like it goes for about $1,400 used when you can find them (I see none available anywhere currently) with hard to tame bass, RS-1 like small soundstage, less comfortable (heavy). The GS-1000 seems to have a bigger soundstage, very comfortable, $995 brand new (w/BD cable closer in price to PS-1 but still new compared to used). That sounds like a huge price to pay for just a better midrange Just seeking answers until I can hear them

You'll soon be able to tell for yourself.

It's not that big of a price if I look at it in steps. If I paid $1000 for something I'm not completely happy with, than I wasted the money. If I paid slightly more but I'm completely blown away, my money is better spent.

Yes they are heavy and not as comfortable but not too bad and in the end it's is all about the sound. It's really much more than the mids. I'd say it's more about the level of detail and texture. As far as the bass, it sounds perfect in my setup. Not bloated at all. Very controlled, deeper than the GS1K, more impact, and again more detail and texture.

It's true that my collection is mostly rock, so these are perfect for me. I haven't tried classical yet but I might not be the best person to make that decision. It also think the PS-1 might not have the same congession problem as the RS-1. I think the soundstage is about the same size and up close but there seems to be a lot more air and space around the instruments. This small space still might be a problem for some. To me, it actually sounds more natural that the GS1K. That soundstage almost started to sound like a 3D effect on some of my music. At other times, it was perfect. It was just this hit or miss problem I didn't like.

 

[Zanth]

I have been enjoying reading this thread for a bit now. I have not finished my write-up of the comparisons but my notes are complete.

I think much of what is being said is pretty well spot on for most things. Between audiofiler and iamdone and rob321.

This is how I see it, at least in part:

GS-1k's are the most "high end" of the Grados to date. This high-endness has only slowly worked its way into my mind but I am starting to understand it now. I've noticed that many people talk about how they would prefer top dollar sources paired with more mediocre amps and phones because this would work out best, much better than say mega buck transducers and a equally well paired amp with a mediocre source. The "better" the transducer, the more difficult it will be to match with the upstream components. Moreover, it seems that these top tier speakers/headphones can sound downright nasty with components that are not well suited for them.

Immediately what comes to mind are the Sony R10's and the Qualias. Though I have never heard the Qualias, they may well be the pickiest of all headphones ever. Undeniably resolving, super accurate, very very fast and perhaps ruler flat to a fault (perhaps on par with HP-1000s or close to them?) Regardless, it seems that to get the right balance with these headphones, one needs some really good upstream gear.

I have had a long-time love/hate relationship with the R10's. They lack bass (even some rather big fans of the R10's are slowly admitting that they either need an amp that compensates for this and/or a source that does) and they have highs that can get pitchy and strident if nto careful. Yet, their mids are among the best if not the best in the biz. Though the R10's can sound decent out of a cheaper, less organized (in terms of synergy) rig, it really takes a well thought out, top tier rig to make them sing like so many say they can. I don't deny it, I'm just not one of the folks willing to plunk down 5k+ on an SP amp to make it happen. Yet, one does what is necessary when one loves the phone right?

Now we are introduced to the GS-1k's. Certainly it maintains much of the Grado flavouring but it is unique. It is by far the most sensitive of any Grado. It can detect hiss like there is no tomorrow, I am going to go out on a limb and say of any phone I've heard, this one picks it up more save for the Shure E500's whose sensitivity was out of this world. Perhaps UE UE10's and or Sensaphonics 2x's do the same, but I've not heard them. Regardless, they are VERY VERY sensitive. They are also very picky. They give you what the upstream components pump out without being forgiving at all. If there is any stridency or scratchiness in the highs, that treble is going to come out swinging. Where did I experience this before? Ah...yes yes, with the R10's!

I carefully constructed my system to be very very controlled in the highs. They are not rolled off but they won't throw sibilance at me unless the recording has it. And when it does...ouch! But that is what one gets for using really really good headphones. Like the R10's, the GS-1k's won't shy away from revealing what is up there, nor do the RS-1's mind you or the HP-1000's but they almost sound obscured vs. the GS-1k's. Maybe this is a tell tale sign of them being bumped, the highs on the GS1k's but then this is true of the R10's as well. What is very evident though...is that the PS-1's are the champ in my mind for highs, of any phone. THey are well extended but never ever strident or sibilant. They are detailed for sure, but they have this velvet characteristic to them that helps out a lot...particularly in the mids. For this reason I love them but it is also the reason I don't think they could be my only phone, because, in the end, I feel there is a coating on the music, not as open as the HP-1000s or RS-1s or GS1ks, or R10's for that matter.

The GS-1k's have better separation in the bass than the PS-1's, matched likely only by the HP-1000's but the GS-1k's have more bass, better decay, more realistic decay. IT's like comparing Etys to the new Shure E500's. With the Etys you hear everything but you know it is somehow fake, but with the E500s, you might not catch it all down there, but what you do hear is very much what one would expect to hear in a concert hall (small soundstage and headstage notwithstanding). The HP-1000's have the best impact of any phone, no way anything touches it. The bass hits HARD and the GS-1k's are second in that department. The PS-1's come off more bloated but with layering, just not as layered as the other two. The RS-1's tend to exhibit a "one note bass" in comparison, though this is overly harsh since it is quite easy to follow bass lines with them provided the notes don't go too low. Still, they don't have the volume (metric not gain) of the PS-1's nor the snap of the HP-1's nor the control of the GS-1k's.

Tonally, for most instruments, the GS-1k's may come out on top, above any of the other Grados. On electric guitars, the HP-1's and PS-1's can really sing, they get really down and dirty say with a slide guitar or a banjo. One can really get a sense of the metal there but they falter with strings and woodwinds when compared to RS-1's. They lack the proper timbre and decay to really get a sense of the wood. The GS-1k's though...they can present that open and dirty sound of a blues guitar but sit perfectly upright and throw out a rich and beautiful sound from a classical guitar. This is perhaps what I love about the GS-1k's the most.

I do think this though...overall, there is no "1 perfect Grado" since they all have wonderful attributes that are disctinct from their counterparts. For those that really want that upclose sound, something I truly truly love (and perhaps one of the main reasons I have trouble listening to speakers) then the RS1 or HP1000 with flats are going to rule. Spread it out a bit and one has the PS-1's, but if one wants wide open and BIG you go GS-1k no doubt.

Each has there merit, but each must be tuned well like an instrument, perhaps the GS-1k's more than any of the others because of its sensitivity in all senses of the word.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone You'll soon be able to tell for yourself. It's not that big of a price if I look at it in steps. If I paid $1000 for something I'm not completely happy with, than I wasted the money. If I paid slightly more but I'm completely blown away, my money is better spent. Yes they are heavy and not as comfortable but not too bad and in the end it's is all about the sound. It's really much more than the mids. I'd say it's more about the level of detail and texture. As far as the bass, it sounds perfect in my setup. Not bloated at all. Very controlled, deeper than the GS1K, more impact, and again more detail and texture. It's true that my collection is mostly rock, so these are perfect for me. I haven't tried classical yet but I might not be the best person to make that decision. It also think the PS-1 might not have the same congession problem as the RS-1. I think the soundstage is about the same size and up close but there seems to be a lot more air and space around the instruments. This small space still might be a problem for some. To me, it actually sounds more natural that the GS1K. That soundstage almost started to sound like a 3D effect on some of my music. At other times, it was perfect. It was just this hit or miss problem I didn't like.

Thanks iamdone! That all makes sense, and I agree completely that sound trumps all - and clearly me saying value matters in this hobby over finding what hits a sweet spot for someone is just not realistic

This makes me wonder if the K-1000 and PS-1 were made for studio monitoring (and they both seem to be up with the best), are monitor phones better than those made for audiophiles? Hmmm.

 

[iamdone]

Thanks, Zanth. See it really goes to show how people can differ. Also, ones setup can make a big difference. For me the bass on PS-1 had more impact and just sounds better. The GSK1 did have good bass but in the exact same setup, it completely lost it's groove. The flow was missing.

Anway, I think I've said enough for now. After I do some direct comparisons I'll have more to say.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth I think much of what is being said is pretty well spot on for most things. Between audiofiler and iamdone and rob321. The GS-1k's have better separation in the bass than the PS-1's, matched likely only by the HP-1000's but the GS-1k's have more bass, better decay, more realistic decay. IT's like comparing Etys to the new Shure E500's. With the Etys you hear everything but you know it is somehow fake, but with the E500s, you might not catch it all down there, but what you do hear is very much what one would expect to hear in a concert hall (small soundstage and headstage notwithstanding). The HP-1000's have the best impact of any phone, no way anything touches it. The bass hits HARD and the GS-1k's are second in that department. The PS-1's come off more bloated but with layering, just not as layered as the other two. The RS-1's tend to exhibit a "one note bass" in comparison, though this is overly harsh since it is quite easy to follow bass lines with them provided the notes don't go too low. Still, they don't have the volume of the PS-1's nor the snap of the HP-1's nor the control of the GS-1k's. Tonally, for most instruments, the GS-1k's may come out on top, above any of the other Grados. On electric guitars, the HP-1's and PS-1's can really sing, they get really down and dirty say with a slide guitar or a banjo. One can really get a sense of the metal there but they falter with strings and woodwinds when compared to RS-1's. They lack the proper timbre and decay to really get a sense of the wood. The GS-1k's though...they can present that open and dirty sound of a blues guitar but sit perfectly upright and throw out a rich and beautiful sound from a classical guitar. This is perhaps what I love about the GS-1k's the most.

Very well put Z..especially agree with this^

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone Thanks, Zanth. See it really goes to show how people can differ. Also, ones setup can make a big difference. For me the bass on PS-1 had more impact and just sounds better. The GSK1 did have good bass but in the exact same setup, it completely lost it's grove. The flow was missing.

I heard the same thing as you.

Biggie.

 

[robm321]

Zanth, Thanks for chiming in! You’ve heard probably more configurations (especially with Grados) than a lot of people and your opinions according to the reviews that I’ve read are almost spot on with how I hear things. That doesn’t mean that people can’t disagree, but for me, your opinion is big.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanth What is very evident though...is that the PS-1's are the champ in my mind for highs, of any phone. THey are well extended but never ever strident or sibilant. They are detailed for sure, but they have this velvet characteristic to them that helps out a lot...particularly in the mids. For this reason I love them but it is also the reason I don't think they could be my only phone, because, in the end, I feel there is a coating on the music, not as open as the HP-1000s or RS-1s or GS1ks, or R10's for that matter.

I read in another thread how the PS-1 was accurate and I asked if it revealed the recording or “glossed over” the sound. I was told that it was very accurate, but that it seems to “cure” or “smooth out” any sibilance in recordings where they were present.

This didn’t add up. You can’t have a ruthlessly revealing speaker or headphone that also makes all music sound good and eliminates sibilance. My K-1000’s are ruthless, and bad recordings sound bad. So, thank you for showing me that I wasn’t losing my mind.

 

[iamdone]

I guess I don't have a perfect source because I still get traces of sibilance with the PS-1. It's nothing like a got with the GS1000, but certain recording have it. The big difference is it is not grating. Neko Cases' latest album gives me sibilance even out of an ipod. With the GS1000, no matter what I tried, it was very hard to listen to. The sibilance is definately in the recording. With the PS-1 it's still there but very listenable. I was actually surprised at how good it sounded.

I do think the PS-1 is probably putting some kind of color on things. I thought the hd-650 did the same by giving everything a very airy, sparkly sound. Very pleasant but suffered from having no groove. Oh, and they didn't do electric guitars that well either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 Zanth, Thanks for chiming in! You’ve heard probably more configurations (especially with Grados) than a lot of people and your opinions according to the reviews that I’ve read are almost spot on with how I hear things. That doesn’t mean that people can’t disagree, but for me, your opinion is big. I read in another thread how the PS-1 was accurate and I asked if it revealed the recording or “glossed over” the sound. I was told that it was very accurate, but that it seems to “cure” or “smooth out” any sibilance in recordings where they were present. This didn’t add up. You can’t have a ruthlessly revealing speaker or headphone that also makes all music sound good and eliminates sibilance. My K-1000’s are ruthless, and bad recordings sound bad. So, thank you for showing me that I wasn’t losing my mind.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I guess I don't have a perfect source because I still get traces of sibilance with the PS-1. It's nothing like a got with the GS1000, but certain recording have it. The big difference is it is not grating. Neko Cases' latest album gives me sibilance even out of an ipod. With the GS1000, no matter what I tried, it was very hard to listen to. The sibilance is definately in the recording. With the PS-1 it's still there but very listenable. I was actually surprised at how good it sounded. I do think the PS-1 is probably putting some kind of color on things. I thought the hd-650 did the same by giving everything a very airy, sparkly sound. Very pleasant but suffered from having no groove. Oh, and they didn't do electric guitars that well either.

Nothing wrong with a little coloration

With speakers you can get a very neutral, uncolored, yet musical sound. With headphones, the only one that gets close to that or maybe even hits that mark (that I've heard) is the K-1000. Ever other neutral phone or uncolored phone I've heard loses the excitement. The Senns are colored by rolling off the treble and the missing PRAT is a coloration.

The K701 is very close to neutral but very dry and unmusical to me.

So, the solution for me (aside from getting the K-1000) was to get a musical, satisfying phone and Grado (regardless of model) just has the musicality that I have yet to hear from other brands.

That being said I seem to have kept all these other phones and enjoy them in different ways, but that may change since I just don't have the time for each one.

So, good for you in finding one phone that works for you. Hopefully, I will be there before too long too. Although I'll need 2 since the K-1000's need a companion for the not so great recordings.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I do think the PS-1 is probably putting some kind of color on things. I thought the hd-650 did the same by giving everything a very airy, sparkly sound.

The hd650's avoid sibilance by having a veil over the music. Remove the foam insert and you will start hearing more detail along with sibilance. The ps-1's handle sibilance so well by having superior dampening and lack of spikes in the highs.

Biggie.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ The hd650's avoid sibilance by having a veil over the music. Remove the foam insert and you will start hearing more detail along with sibilance. The ps-1's handle sibilance so well by having superior dampening and lack of spikes in the highs. Biggie.

Well to me the PS-1 sounds perfect. I only assume it adds coloring because no one says it's neutral and I haven't heard the HP-1. Basically I don't really care about any of that, it's just a means to enjoy my music. I just wanted a fun headphone that works great with my whole collection.

I was very satisified with the RS-1 and thought the GS1000 would top it. I never considered the PS-1 because I thought it was way too much. But now they were just another step up from the GS1000, making it a little easier. So if it wasn't for the GS1000, I wouldn't have the PS-1. It all works out in the end.