[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Just give in and go with the grovers. No hype here, just great prices.

Biggie.

 

[in2monk]

I owned Cardas Golden Cross ICs and the Grover SR II blew them out of the water. The new Grover UR is MUCH better than the SR II.

 

[DeeJayBump]

My Grover URs (ICs) arrived about 10 days ago. I now have the URs and Audiogeek Nitrogens to compare with my Tangent-built PPAv2 with BlackGates and other assorted sonic goodness once it arrives next week.

Now, many others have far more experience with top-dollar wire than me, so I'm not sure I have the experience base to convey what I'll hear between these two reputedly excellent ICs, but I'll post my impressions anyway once the PPAv2 arrives, the ICs burn in and I have a handle on the differences between these two ICs. For reference, my only other decent ICs have been Audioquest (Turquoise and Ruby) interconnects.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeJayBump My Grover URs (ICs) arrived about 10 days ago. I now have the URs and Audiogeek Nitrogens to compare with my Tangent-built PPAv2 with BlackGates and other assorted sonic goodness once it arrives next week. Now, many others have far more experience with top-dollar wire than me, so I'm not sure I have the experience base to convey what I'll hear between these two reputedly excellent ICs, but I'll post my impressions anyway once the PPAv2 arrives, the ICs burn in and I have a handle on the differences between these two ICs. For reference, my only other decent ICs have been Audioquest (Turquoise and Ruby) interconnects.

Perhaps it is a blessing to not have any experience with expensive cables, leaves more money in your wallet......he he.

I know this is headphone site, but I find it much harder to hear what cables are capable of with headphones because soundstage is so restricted. This is often the parameter that displays largest subjective variation but can only be fully judged in speaker based system.

 

[DeeJayBump]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel Perhaps it is a blessing to not have any experience with expensive cables, leaves more money in your wallet......he he. I know this is headphone site, but I find it much harder to hear what cables are capable of with headphones because soundstage is so restricted. This is often the parameter that displays largest subjective variation but can only be fully judged in speaker based system.

I know what you mean about saved funds. The Rubys ICs I only paid $60 for from J&R Music World well over a decade ago. As for the speaker-based comparisons, I'm slowly putting one together. For now, the PPAv2-CE775-SR225s will have to do as far as comparing these two ICs go. In the very near future I will pick up a SACDmodded-CE775 to bring my source at least a little closer to the level of the other components.

Kind of strange having ICs that cost more than I paid for the CDP.

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel I know this is headphone site, but I find it much harder to hear what cables are capable of with headphones because soundstage is so restricted. This is often the parameter that displays largest subjective variation but can only be fully judged in speaker based system.

I totally agree with you. Even when I try out cables on my crappy fisher old school receiver and speakers, you can totally hear how the stage will open up, like you'll get more depth behind the speakers, or the speakers themselves becomre more invisible and sound seems to emanate out of nowhere. With headphones, cable swaps are not as apparent because the stage is constricted and small by comparison.

However, i do notice subtle differences and sometimes not so subtle differences with certain cables with my 650's and rs-1's. I've been using my nordost blue heavens for a while now, but last night the stage and imaging just clicked. There was this guitar playing way far left, way beyond my ear and the image seemed to project totally beyond the earpiece. Also, last night playing some MIA the sound ssimply had more depth to it than my MIT's, i could hear and feel the bass presence behind me as well.

cable differences are not as apparent and take a little more time to notice on headphones than speakers IMO due to the differences in the size of the stage

 

[recstar24]

I just thought I would post an email correspondence i had with someone on audiogon, who was selling the grover UR's and i missed out, but i asked him why he was selling in the first place and what his impressions were - obviously, this is his opinion on his rig so take it as such, but i thought it would be nice to post a contrary insight to what has already been said:

"I initially liked them but thought they lacked a bit of warmth. Still, I preferred them to the first generation Acoustic Zen Matrix Reference and Silver Ref ICs and Satori speaker cables I had on hand. Longer term I also came to feel that the Grovers accentuated the leading edge of transients unacceptably. I replaced the ICs with a pair of Von Gaylord Chinchillas and the speaker cables with Audience au24 or Eichmann Express 6 (still undecided on those), all of which are copper rather than silver, and much more expensive. Results were similar in my two channel rig (Avantgarde Duos, tubed Sony SACD player, Avantgarde amp) and my much humbler hometheater set-up (Yamaha receiver, Kef speakers)."

Again, this is just a contrary opinion posted just to provide some balance and to encourage some feedback on this user's impressions as well as to encourage some healthy discussion on this cable

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

recstar24 said... Von Gaylord Chinchillas

I know I shouldn't be, but I can't stop laughing, what a name for some cables!

 

[DarkAngel]

Some thoughts......

There is no way to predict how a cable will sound exactly in any given system with all the possible equipment variables and personal tastes, that is what trail periods are for.

The fact that person above selling his Grover UR was specifically looking for warmer sounding all copper cables "may" indicate a system already on the bright side of neutral looking to use cables as a tone control to warm things up.

Also lets remember that those Von Gaylord Chinchillas ICs are $1,400+ per pair vs $140 for Grover UR.......

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhwilkin I know I shouldn't be, but I can't stop laughing, what a name for some cables!

Hey, I swear i didnt say that, thats an actual cable and that is exactly what the email the guy stated lol! I didnt even think about that, but now i cant stop laughing...

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel Some thoughts...... There is no way to predict how a cable will sound exactly in any given system with all the possible equipment variables and personal tastes, that is what trail periods are for. The fact that person above selling his Grover UR was specifically looking for warmer sounding all copper cables "may" indicate a system already on the bright side of neutral looking to use cables as a tone control to warm things up. Also lets remember that those Von Gaylord Chinchillas ICs are $1,400+ per pair vs $140 for Grover UR.......

Great post and great comments, i hear ya, hey i would have totally snagged those badboys up but alas im too slow to the draw!

I just thought it would be nice to post a counterpoint, that's all, its hard to predict the sound of cables until they are in your rig, but im always up for promoting healthy discussion, keep it going...

 

[PATB]

You better like detailed sound before you buy. Like the audiogon guy, I initially like my SR-IIs (which are labeled as URs). After a while I find them too bright in my Meridian G08/HR-2/HD650(stock cable) rig. My rig is not what I would call bright. I hate bright sound, so maybe it is just me. The SR-IIs are now gathering dust in the garage, replaced by my Rega Couple (again).

I also have a pair of Grover UR XLRs driving my KGSS/Stax Omega IIs. The Omega IIs are even darker than HD650s, so no amount of "silver" can make them bright. I am fine with the URs with the O2s, but still curious as to how warmer XLRs cable will sound.

The cables are not pretty, but they are well built and the manufacturer is very trustworthy. The price also can't be beat. I recommend them for those looking for detailed cables. If you are sensitive to brightness, these are not the cables for you.

---Pat

 

[KenW]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB You better like detailed sound before you buy. Like the audiogon guy, I initially like my SR-IIs (which are labeled as URs). After a while I find them too bright in my Meridian G08/HR-2/HD650(stock cable) rig. My rig is not what I would call bright. I hate bright sound, so maybe it is just me. The SR-IIs are now gathering dust in the garage, replaced by my Rega Couple (again). I also have a pair of Grover UR XLRs driving my KGSS/Stax Omega IIs. The Omega IIs are even darker than HD650s, so no amount of "silver" can make them bright. I am fine with the URs with the O2s, but still curious as to how warmer XLRs cable will sound. The cables are not pretty, but they are well built and the manufacturer is very trustworthy. The price also can't be beat. I recommend them for those looking for detailed cables. If you are sensitive to brightness, these are not the cables for you. ---Pat

Pat,

Would you say that the UR are as bright as the SRII? I thought the UR would be warmer than the SR line in general? I share a similar aversion to bright gear and wonder if the upgrade would be a solution or not? I've got the SR and the BMC Pinnacle Golds. Would you or anyone know how the UR would compare to either of those in terms or brightness or warmth?

 

[PATB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenW Pat, Would you say that the UR are as bright as the SRII? I thought the UR would be warmer than the SR line in general? I share a similar aversion to bright gear and wonder if the upgrade would be a solution or not? I've got the SR and the BMC Pinnacle Golds. Would you or anyone know how the UR would compare to either of those in terms or brightness or warmth?

It is very difficult for me to compare the two because my SRs are RCAs and my URs are XLRs -- i.e. I can't just swap them in the same amp/headphone setup. The URs are not bright in my KGSS/O2 -- they just let the Meridian music through. But then again, the O2s are DARK phones to begin with, so I can't really tell how bright they are. Alll I can tell you is that, the UR XLRs are detailed and airy without being bright in a Meridian G08 (balanced)=>Grover UR XLR=>(balanced)KGSS=>Stax Omega II setup.

I just sent my SR-IIs RCAs to Grover for upgrade to the new URs. I will let you know in a week or two. Hold on.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenW Pat, Would you say that the UR are as bright as the SRII? I thought the UR would be warmer than the SR line in general? I share a similar aversion to bright gear and wonder if the upgrade would be a solution or not? I've got the SR and the BMC Pinnacle Golds. Would you or anyone know how the UR would compare to either of those in terms or brightness or warmth?

No silver cable will ever approach the warmth of the pinnacle golds. The empress cable sounds like the sr-II but without the excess brightness. I have the UR's coming to compare to the empress.

Biggie.