[Wodgy]

The "cheap components" thing is just a sideshow issue.

All that matters is the sound, and on that score the RA-1 is just not competitive. There are a handful of vocal RA-1 owners who love to defend this amp, but it just doesn't stand up in a direct comparison with other solid state amps, except perhaps against the Creek OBH or some of the oldest Headroom amps. The RA-1 has the soupiest, weakest bass you can imagine from a solid state amp. It's laughable, really. (To be fair, Hirsch might dive in here and say that if only I was using one certain brand of rechargeable batteries, everything would improve. I can't comment on that, having never tried them.) The irony is that the RA-1 isn't that bad of an amp with Senns, but there is just no slamming bass with Grados. Then there are those highs. There are so many good alternative amps available now; I can't think of any reason to recommend the RA-1, except for the nice wood case.

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy The "cheap components" thing is just a sideshow issue. All that matters is the sound, and on that score the RA-1 is just not competitive. There are a handful of vocal RA-1 owners who love to defend this amp, but it just doesn't stand up in a direct comparison with other solid state amps, except perhaps against the Creek OBH or some of the oldest Headroom amps. The RA-1 has the soupiest, weakest bass you can imagine from a solid state amp. It's laughable, really. (To be fair, Hirsch might dive in here and say that if only I was using one certain brand of rechargeable batteries, everything would improve. I can't comment on that, having never tried them.) The irony is that the RA-1 isn't that bad of an amp with Senns, but there is just no slamming bass with Grados. Then there are those highs. There are so many good alternative amps available now; I can't think of any reason to recommend the RA-1, except for the nice wood case.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with just about everything you said, particularly the "no slamming bass with Grados." I have a few amps (both tubed and SS) priced much higher than the RA-1, yet they don't provide the musicality with the RS-1, and yes, "the slamming bass" that the RA-1 does. Just my opinion of course.
These statements just reinforce my belief that everyone hears things very differently, and the only accurate way to determine whether a 'phone or amp is suitable for a specific individual is to try it our for themselves.
As I said in my previous post, I was very underwhelmed when I first got the RA-1, but after letting it sit idle for over a year, I decided to give it another shot. I can now appreciate its simplicity......some may call it cheapness.....but I like how it does what it's supposed to do. Namely, provide a thoroughly musical experience when paired with the proper 'phones.
Again, all of this is just my opinion. If it was fact, and everything everybody else posted was fact, we might as well tell Jude it's time to shut Head-Fi down.

 

[kin0kin]

not only does the RA-1 uses cheap components, even the circuit design is cheap. go ti.com and download any opamp and look into the simplest design you can find for a non-inverting amp, that is what the RA-1 looks like. R&D? yup..takes the engineer a few clicks on the web to get the circuit

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin not only does the RA-1 uses cheap components, even the circuit design is cheap. go ti.com and download any opamp and look into the simplest design you can find for a non-inverting amp, that is what the RA-1 looks like. R&D? yup..takes the engineer a few clicks on the web to get the circuit

OK, you guys win.....the RA-1 is a cheap piece of crap. Only, don't tell my ears.

Edit: Just found this post by Beagle in response to a few RA-1 bashers:
Quote:

Daniel and Tomo are right. This amp is a waste of money. I listened to it last night with a couple of different sources and realized that this amp is doing absolutely nothing to the sound! It's like a secretary who just passes the information on to you without improving it or changing it. What a fool I've been. $350 for an amp that does nothing to the sound? I mean, it should at least add it's own opinion or effect to the signal, otherwise what is the point? I mean, it's neutral. All it is doing is putting out what goes into it. It has no sound of it's own. You'd figure for $350 it should at least boost the bass or treble, romanticise or excite the sound, do SOMETHING! I am going to take the good advice and build a DIY unit that will blow away this Grado amp, blow away it's neutrality and uselessness. Enough throwing good money after bad neutrality.

 

[cortez]

I wouldn't call the RA-1 slow but it is grainy. With a less detailed source one might not notice it but when I switched the rotel 991 AE for the Audio Research CD3 I noticed the grain of the amp easily. It has a hard sound that gets annoying after a while although the hard sound wasn't as bad on the 991. I guess the extra detail from the CD3 started to showed the weakness of the amp. The bass is good for me. I got noise coming out of mine too. I think the amp should sell new for about $100, any more is a little on the high side. I want to try a Gilmore lite to compare to the RA-1 as they are close in price.

 

[Jigglybootch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin not only does the RA-1 uses cheap components, even the circuit design is cheap. go ti.com and download any opamp and look into the simplest design you can find for a non-inverting amp, that is what the RA-1 looks like. R&D? yup..takes the engineer a few clicks on the web to get the circuit

Since when is a cheap circuit design a problem? It may be cheap, but does it do what it's supposed to do? Yes. Just because it isn't a complicated or expensive design doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Hell, the more complex you make it, the more there is to go wrong with it. The RA-1 is a simple design that works very well. Granted, for being so simple, it's pretty expensive, but I've no doubt most of the expense goes into the presenation (i.e. the wood enclosure). Though I'm not fond of the sound with non-Grado cans, I have to admit that the RS-1/RA-1 combo is simply magical. I would say that for non-Grado owners, the RA-1 would be a waste. But if you are a Grado owner, the RA-1, though expensive, will give you great synergy. And if you are one of the luck RS-1 owners, then you owe it to yourself and the RS-1 to pair it up with the RA-1.

 

[OneMalt]

I'm in firm lockstep with Joelongwood, Zanth and Jigglybootch. Nothing else come close to presenting the magic of an RS-1 that an RA-1 does. My Senns sound like mud through it but the RS-1 is special in this pairing.

 

[kin0kin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigglybootch Since when is a cheap circuit design a problem? It may be cheap, but does it do what it's supposed to do? Yes. Just because it isn't a complicated or expensive design doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Hell, the more complex you make it, the more there is to go wrong with it. The RA-1 is a simple design that works very well. Granted, for being so simple, it's pretty expensive, but I've no doubt most of the expense goes into the presenation (i.e. the wood enclosure). Though I'm not fond of the sound with non-Grado cans, I have to admit that the RS-1/RA-1 combo is simply magical. I would say that for non-Grado owners, the RA-1 would be a waste. But if you are a Grado owner, the RA-1, though expensive, will give you great synergy. And if you are one of the luck RS-1 owners, then you owe it to yourself and the RS-1 to pair it up with the RA-1.

it is not a problem that the design is cheap, and it is quite true that the simpler the design the less problem you would get into but that is not always the case, and it definitely does what it is suppose to do. the "problem" here is that, is 300 bucks for something that cost not more than 20 bucks to build(excluding the chassis), and that virtually has $0 R&D cost spent on it worth buying? a cmoy does the same thing too and is also based on the exact same design which cost hell less than the RA-1. Now whether a 300bucks cmoy crafted by grado worth buying is really up to you to decide. Apparently, nobody would say anything about the RA-1 not worth buying if it wasn't cracked opened and circuit disclosed to the public.

an analogy:
would you think that a blackforest cake that cost you 20 bucks per slice, which tasted absolutely fantastic, still worth 20 bucks if you found out that it was a poo coated pound cake(with no special ingredient at all)? sure, it fills your belly, and it definitely tasted quite nice (yuck

)...but now you know that you can make ur own for virtually free....i wouldnt think 20 bucks is worth it anymore.

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin a cmoy does the same thing too and is also based on the exact same design

I have a few cmoys around here somewhere.............NONE of them sound the same as the RA-1. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[kin0kin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelongwood I have a few cmoys around here somewhere.............NONE of them sound the same as the RA-1. Just my opinion, of course.

pick the same dual opamp as the ra-1 and try to use the exact same components and values

edit: hey i did hear a couple of ppl who cloned the ra-1 said that it doesnt sound exactly like the original...maybe there were really some secret ingredient?

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin pick the same dual opamp as the ra-1 and try to use the exact same components and values edit: hey i did hear a couple of ppl who cloned the ra-1 said that it doesnt sound exactly like the original...maybe there were really some secret ingredient?

Yes, pixie dust!

As an aside. I like your analogy about our fair "poo cake." Now then. Let us stick with this analogy but go one step further and into reality, no longer the hypothetical. What about Kopi Luwak Coffee which is said to be the best in the world and IS made from poo! Well...more correctly the coffee cherries which have been digested and then harvested from the feces of the Kopi Luwak.

So there we have it, just because it is poo...doesn't mean it can't be good, moreover, sometimes it represents the best!

 

[TheWayofWay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin it is not a problem that the design is cheap, and it is quite true that the simpler the design the less problem you would get into but that is not always the case, and it definitely does what it is suppose to do. the "problem" here is that, is 300 bucks for something that cost not more than 20 bucks to build(excluding the chassis), and that virtually has $0 R&D cost spent on it worth buying? a cmoy does the same thing too and is also based on the exact same design which cost hell less than the RA-1. Now whether a 300bucks cmoy crafted by grado worth buying is really up to you to decide. Apparently, nobody would say anything about the RA-1 not worth buying if it wasn't cracked opened and circuit disclosed to the public. an analogy: would you think that a blackforest cake that cost you 20 bucks per slice, which tasted absolutely fantastic, still worth 20 bucks if you found out that it was a poo coated pound cake(with no special ingredient at all)? sure, it fills your belly, and it definitely tasted quite nice (yuck )...but now you know that you can make ur own for virtually free....i wouldnt think 20 bucks is worth it anymore.

I pretty much agree with what he has said. I know many like their RA-1's and feel that the synergy is perfection, but I just couldn't live with that sort of amp. Those pictures of the inside would always be in my head as I listened... and it'd always be a lackluster experience. I hate to throw weak opinions around, but I sort of feel that it's just not right for Grado to sell us something that cost them 20 bucks for 300.

Usually, I'm not one to say that it's the principle of the matter, but in this case I simply have to. Couldn't Grado have added some extras? Something? It's somewhat like companies selling massively expensive DAPs and packaging stock headphones that cost $2. It's really just plain awful.

I'm sure you guys will enjoy your RA-1s... and I'm not out to limit that. I just think that what Grado does is really upsetting. Also, somebody should figure out what parts Grado uses and replicate it to the dot... maybe it's even less expensive than thought.

 

[kin0kin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth Yes, pixie dust! As an aside. I like your analogy about our fair "poo cake." Now then. Let us stick with this analogy but go one step further and into reality, no longer the hypothetical. What about Kopi Luwak Coffee which is said to be the best in the world and IS made from poo! Well...more correctly the coffee cherries which have been digested and then harvested from the feces of the Kopi Luwak. So there we have it, just because it is poo...doesn't mean it can't be good, moreover, sometimes it represents the best!

dude, don't say anymore of this. I'd rather not know anything about the truth sometimes

anyway I ain't bashing the ra-1, just some analization on the price/real cost/performance which imo the ra-1 is not worth 300bucks (to me), so hopefully i wont get flamed

mcdonald's patties were said to be made from worms(with beef)...high protein....good for health....anyone wants some?

the truth can be cruel hehe

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin mcdonald's patties were said to be made from worms(with beef)...high protein....good for health....anyone wants some? the truth can be cruel hehe

I believe this was fact for McDonalds in the US for a while? Not sure anymore.

 

[Peppermint Duck]

Well it ended up going for £192.99 ~ $361.02! More than the retail price isn't it?