[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd What Hi-Fi generally talk a load of crap.. It used to be a very credible magazine back in the 70's and 80's but these days it generally gives 5 stars to almost everything (MP3 players, radios, speakers etc.) all their reviews are about a paragraph long and always include such statements as "this sounds as good as something costing 5 times as much blah blah"

Well, this is one of the shorter reviews in the mag. and consists of just three paragraphs. (and a picture) Intro paragraph mention price in UK, one para on the 'vivid sound that bristles with detail and dynamics'. It also states that most of the opposition barely hoints at the kind of bass power that these phones offer. Then the last para. comparing the value to £3,000 speakers.

That's it. For: Sound. Against: comfort of pads. Verdict: Expensive but worth it if your gear's up to it.

Maybe it's not such a good mag.

 

[BRBJackson]

What Hi-Fi? actually makes a decent (if overly simplified) comparison, which suprises me as it's usually an *****-wipe. As others have mentioned here, the experiences of listening to music through speakers and headphones are as different as night and day. That said, for sheer reproduction of musical detail, few speakers will ever match a decent headphone rig.

 

[ssportclay]

$200 will buy you speakers that will beat the Grados,but you will need $1200 for a source,$800 for a preamp,and $800 for a poweramp to drive those speakers properly.You cant get there by using a receiver.If you want to play, you have got to pay.

 

[chesebert]

$200 speaker wouldnot sound any better with a $10,000 amp, simply because all amp does is amplify 1mv input to 100V output (ok..not that extreme) but really garbage in garbage out, source > speaker > amp/preamp > interconnect > power >suger pill effect of other voodoo magic

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert $200 speaker wouldnot sound any better with a $10,000 amp, simply because all amp does is amplify 1mv input to 100V output (ok..not that extreme) but really garbage in garbage out, source > speaker > amp/preamp > interconnect > power >suger pill effect of other voodoo magic

$500-$1000 will buy you a decent pair of speakers, but if you use them with a 50w receiver and mediocore $300 source more than likely you won't get all you can get out of them.

I still agree that the two cannot be compared. It's like arguing with a friend that oranges are technically superior to apples.

 

[S_Dedalus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssportclay $200 will buy you speakers that will beat the Grados,but you will need $1200 for a source,$800 for a preamp,and $800 for a poweramp to drive those speakers properly.You cant get there by using a receiver.If you want to play, you have got to pay.

For $200 you might be able to get a pair of drivers that would outperform the grados, as long as you had a good subwoofer and a good pair of tweeters, and were good with woodworking.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan $500-$1000 will buy you a decent pair of speakers, but if you use them with a 50w receiver and mediocore $300 source more than likely you won't get all you can get out of them. I still agree that the two cannot be compared. It's like arguing with a friend that oranges are technically superior to apples.

I whole heartly agree, but if you have $1000, I would put that toward a better speaker than upgrade anything else, unless ofcourse you are dumb enough to run a PCDP as source and a $100 home theater amp you get from worst buy.

 

[BillyBenBilly]

I'll just say at the outset that the speaker based and headphone based music listening experience are different. They are complementary, each with its own particular set of strengths and weaknesses.

Having said that, my own set of experiences suggest to me that putting together a really enjoyable and musical system with a headphone based system is much more cost effective. My best sounding speaker based system utilized an AudioNote Kit-1 300B SET amp, De Capo i speakers, VTL pre-amp and cd player.It was easily a $5K system. Cables and cd player are more or less constant in either a speaker based system or headphone based system with the exception that a speaker based system requires additional cabling. My currrent headphone system consists of AKG 501's or Grado SR-225's, Woo Audio 3 headphone amp with NOS tubes, a cheap Pioneer DVD-414 cd/dvd player, and Kimber PBJ interconnects. This system puts to shame, in my opinion, my best system and all but select a few of the speaker based systems I've heard in terms of pure musicality and enjoyment. Total investment in my setup with one set of headphones is less than $800. This, of course, is predicated on my current aesthetic preferences.Yours may be different. Being somewhat new to this headphone fetish, I was really pleasantly suprised at the low cost/high musical enjoyment ratio of phones.

 

[Zanth]

I agree with what most have mentioned already. Given the analogous abilities of each type of transducer, headphones will win out more often that not until one hits a price point, then it is really about preferences. OF course, even the outset is about preferences.

Some HATE headphones. No matter what, they don't like it, hate the lack of "true soundstage" and hate the lack of visceral bass impact. For them, well, let them have their speakers.

For those who are open minded to the attributes of both, headphones offer a greater ease of use (no room interactions), and therefore ideal use in nearly every single sitting. Their resolution is unsurpassed. The best headphones will smoke the best speakers. It doesn't matter how much the big boys cry that their $xxx xxx speakers do it just as well, it simply "ain't so" and the pro reviers admit to this, and well, they have heard it all. IEM's will provide the most detail and that is that period. Best most information for a measly $1k or less! Hello sign me up!

As for other aspects of sound, depending on the phone, they will simply work better than speakers of equal value or greater up to a certain point, then it is about taste and priorities. For some, R10's are the best thing ever, and no speaker does it as well. For them that is true, and certainly R10's do tonal balance extremely well, I ahve not heard a speaker that gets it that right. At least not in the mid to upper bands.

Headphones lack the group fun factor (unless one has multiple outputs on their amp/player (with my cd player I can send to two amps, get the right two preamps, and I could send to a bunch of headphone amps, and given the right headphone amps, each could be pumping out 4 headphone connections, but that is a lot of wires for a group who would be practically on top of eachother - speakers work better here), they lack that powerful heartbeat skipping bass, and they lack that presentation that when one closes their eyes, they can imagine truly that a band is in the room with them.

Otherwise, speakers can just take a step back and let the headphones take over

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Dedalus For $200 you might be able to get a pair of drivers that would outperform the grados, as long as you had a good subwoofer and a good pair of tweeters, and were good with woodworking.

you should also figure in teh time spent calculating enclosure volumes. hey thats an engineering job. you could spend 4 hours doing that and still have crap in the end. 6 hours (still no guarantees of quality.) engineering consultation ranges from $15 to wayyy alot/hr, say $15. $90

then we shall include construction time, and ignore the material costs. it will probably take 3 hours to construct a pair of enclosures, with bracing if necessary. woot, $25/hr, skilled labor (ask a cabinetmaker to make you en enclosure to your spec$25/hr is CHEAP) $75 in labor.

and then you have the little odds and ends: wiring, terminals, and the like.

its not $200 for the drivers, its more like $400 for your time, and energy. that also assumes that the cabinet you make is as well tuned as a "store bought" one in terms of sound quality....

and that is for a midrange pair? so you toss in the $50 for a nice pair of tweeters, and then the woofer....

your looking down the barel of $900 now.... ooh, and you will need an amp. since we are not dum we will bi-amp, and seperate the woffers from the mid/tweeters. that went well, now stairing down $1500 maybe more.

$250 for a pair of grado sr325 and a CHEAP amp (even the old ones, before the "improved" one was flavor of the month...) is a steal for the sq you get.

and to answer the topic question-are hifi mags truthfull: nope, they lie all the time.

 

[GoRedwings19]

I use to own a pair of B&W 801 signature series but then I got my ipod and the earbuds thought A)they match the colour of my ipod and B)I am hip, so I sold my B&W's.....

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod you should also figure in teh time spent calculating enclosure volumes. hey thats an engineering job. you could spend 4 hours doing that and still have crap in the end. 6 hours (still no guarantees of quality.) engineering consultation ranges from $15 to wayyy alot/hr, say $15. $90 then we shall include construction time, and ignore the material costs. it will probably take 3 hours to construct a pair of enclosures, with bracing if necessary. woot, $25/hr, skilled labor (ask a cabinetmaker to make you en enclosure to your spec$25/hr is CHEAP) $75 in labor. and then you have the little odds and ends: wiring, terminals, and the like. its not $200 for the drivers, its more like $400 for your time, and energy. that also assumes that the cabinet you make is as well tuned as a "store bought" one in terms of sound quality.... and that is for a midrange pair? so you toss in the $50 for a nice pair of tweeters, and then the woofer.... your looking down the barel of $900 now.... ooh, and you will need an amp. since we are not dum we will bi-amp, and seperate the woffers from the mid/tweeters. that went well, now stairing down $1500 maybe more. $250 for a pair of grado sr325 and a CHEAP amp (even the old ones, before the "improved" one was flavor of the month...) is a steal for the sq you get. and to answer the topic question-are hifi mags truthfull: nope, they lie all the time.

Why go to all this trouble when you can buy a nice pair of Athena AS-B2 speakers for less than $200 on sale.With these speakers matched with really high end components,do you really think the grados will sound more detailed ?

 

[Wayde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd is like saying you'd have to spend £100,000 on a car to equal the performance of a motorbike..... they're two different things and two different experiences and It's daft comparing them IMO

Sorry, I disagree. How would you explain the feeling of riding a motorcycle to someone who has only driven cars, walked or skipped.

I see your point that there are significant differences between the headphone experience and the speaker experience, but disagree that there is no comparison. There are similarities to the experiences, they can be compared.

As someone who would have told you (a month ago) that headphones are basically poopy; a tiny speaker, thin, anemic sound compared to good speakers. I can and have compared the sound to different speaker experiences. I can see situations that are actually better suited to headphones, now that I can see their true value.

 

[mintyfresh]

It's obviously the hi-fi mag's job to pimp up the audio equipment. The bottom line is always there.

 

[apostate]

As many people have pointed out there are many areas in which speakers and headphones are just two separate worlds. However, an individual can certainly compare the two in terms of perceived sound quality respective to their listening tastes. Someone that is really into imaging and a really large soundstage may favor speakers while someone looking for the very last detail may have to look hard and spend a lot to match their high-end headphone rig.

Having listened today to probably a dozen speakers from $800-$8000/pr today(Definitive, Infinity, Kef, Klipsch, B&W, Vienna Acoustics, Martin Logan, Sonus Faber and more) with sources/amps from Denon and Pioneer through Rotel and up to high $$$ items like Esoteric's universal player I am much more appreciative of my meager headphone rig. In terms perceived sq, taking into account some of the limitations inherent in this type of comparison, I would take my setup over a good deal of the systems I heard today.

Of the systems I heard today only two would entice me to spend my money on them. One about 2 or 3 up from the bottom and the most expensive. The first system was about $4k total (with $2600/pr speakers) the other was close to $20K (1 amp, 1 source, 2 speakers).

With the $4k I particularly liked its imaging and and speed for the price but it lost on detail and accuracy to my cans. The second system was far and away better, there was just no comparison. That said I've only got about $1k into my setup (source, amp and with either set of cans but not both) so I wasn't expecting it to compare well either. While I would consider a couple of the other setups I heard superior to what I have in headphones I could easily see how spending a lot less money would easily correct that in the 'phones favor.

YMMV but I've got a lot more respect for my cans now in relation to speakers (and so does the person that went with me).....

Ant