[nickchen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif nickchen, have you tried the ad2ks with the elevated/ modded pads?

No, just stock. You're definetely right that playing with pads can do a lot. Why not with the queeky AT as well?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT What phones do you use as a natural mids reference? As MS2i is the least natural phones I've owned, spare PL750 of course. Sparky, yes, bright and fun but far far from natural.

I think the DT880 and the K271 have quite natural mids. I found the MS2 listenable in that respect...just had issues with its emotional factor, which was far too involving.

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who knows, It might be almost perfectly neutral with the pad mod

I'm not sure I would call it "perfectly neutral", but more neutral indeed.

If I switch from HD600 or DT880 to AD2000, I hear a very flat and bassless sound with only a coloured midrange. When my ears have adjusted, I find the AD2000 to be a more open window into the music than either HD600 or DT880.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickchen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the DT880 and the K271 have quite natural mids. I found the MS2 listenable in that respect...just had issues with its emotional factor, which was far too involving.

DT880 250 Ohm version had some midrange problems as I remember, it sounded a bit recessed and distant there, 600 Ohm version for some reason does not have that problem. K271S midrange is quite different from DT880, over pronounced but very enjoyable. And as you mentioned that, in my setup K271S and AD2000 sound remarkably close to each other, except that AD2000 has more bite. I wasn't a huge fan of AD2000 myself, until after good break in and generous headband stretching.
And just for the record, as of right now 600Ohm DT880 holds a naturalness crown for me, but still does not provide that emotional factor that AD2000 has.

 

[nickchen]

You're right, DT880 isn't exactly an emotion monster, but therefore, it's ideal for casual "longdistance" listening.

A 600 ohm DT880 is something I am indeed quite eager to try one day. Living in Germany, I could easily organize myself 600 ohm systems for small money, but I actually can't be bothered, as my portable rig does not have enough juice for that - I don't want to restrict my DT880 sessions to the Millet.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure I would call it "perfectly neutral", but more neutral indeed. If I switch from HD600 or DT880 to AD2000, I hear a very flat and bassless sound with only a coloured midrange. When my ears have adjusted, I find the AD2000 to be a more open window into the music than either HD600 or DT880.

Absolutely... the AD2000s... are quite a bit more of an "open window" than any of my other phones - RS-1s, HD580/600s, and D5000s.

Or... using another analogy (or metaphor, or simile, whatever) - the AD2000s sound more like a "freshly cleaned window," compared to one that needs washing - bright, clear, clean, crisp, airy, etc. - than my other phones. They sound more like... what I imagine... Stax phones sound like.

On the other hand... my other phones sound great also - being richer, more organic and textured.

Some (perhaps most) will prefer the "crystal clear" sound of the AD2000s more than the more "textured" sound of Senns, Denons, or Grados - others won't. I can't decide - I like them all.

 

[donunus]

As far as a clear window, I feel the hd600s highly superior when it comes to micro detail compared to the ad2ks. Probably because the highs on the ad2ks are so recessed

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as a clear window, I feel the hd600s highly superior when it comes to micro detail compared to the ad2ks. Probably because the highs on the ad2ks are so recessed

Boy... I must have quite a bit different set up than you have... my AD2000s are the brightest phones I have, and have some of the most extended, detailed, clear highs. Certainly not recessed.

The D5000s may have slightly more extended, detailed, or "resolved" highs - though I'm not sure. My HD580/600s have perhaps the least emphasis of the highs - though they are fairly detailed and extended - they don't sound like it, because their highs have less emphasis.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as a clear window, I feel the hd600s highly superior when it comes to micro detail compared to the ad2ks. Probably because the highs on the ad2ks are so recessed

AD2000 recessed highs? I remember quite the opposite.... Nice, extended highs, but very present.

 

[nickchen]

No, the AD2K has a severe treble rolloff. Only the AKG K530 LTD behaves worse in that respect.

Guess they just cut them off to provide enough space for the 130% upper mids...

 

[donunus]

nah even the graph shows the dip... Thats exactly how I hear them. I think nickchen would agree with me also about the recessed highs. They are a little bright but that does not speak about the upper highs. Brightness happens from around 5 to 9 khz

Heres the HD650 graph and the ad2k graph for a comparison. Dont have the hd600s but here are cans that are supposedly darker than the 600s and measure almost the same basing from headroom's graphs

hd650

AD2000

 

[donunus]

ahh we posted at about the same time

 

[donunus]

The hd600s are sparklier above 10khz but less bright.

 

[Gradofan2]

The graphs are interesting... but... there's hardly any difference in the two, except in the bass and lower mids.

And... as you may know... phones never sound like their graphs portray them - just way too many variables between the graphs and the realities of the real world... and... the effects of various set ups. The graphs just give you a general indication of the inherent nature of the phones... "all other things equal" - they do not reflect their sound with various setups.

Their sound does not reflect, in the least, that their treble is "rolled off" - though, I suppose... it all depends on your set up. Mine complements them pretty well.

 

[donunus]

The thing is every headphone I have bought has corresponded with their measurements.

About these graphs, take a look at the 12khz region and the way it slopes down going higher. The hd600 sounds like it has more upper highs in the 12 and 16khz regions while the ad2ks just sound dull to me in those regions. Cymbal crashes for example have a metallic shimmer with the hd600s while the ad2k sounds dulled at the edges making it lose the natural decay of metal making cymbals sound closer to a more plasticky material

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif The hd600 sounds like it has more upper highs in the 12 and 16khz regions while the ad2ks just sound dull to me in those regions.

You are talking about extreme highs, that are better rolled off to not hurt your ears in a long term.
How to Interpret Headphone Data - HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears
Quote:

Headphones also need to be rolled-off in the highs to compensate for the drivers being so close to the ear; a gently sloping flat line from 1kHz to about 8-10dB down at 20kHz is about right.

AKG is using the same trick with K271S, they roll off only extreme highs so they can stay not dull but never fatiguing or shrilling. And sorry for pointing obvious, but you posted HD650 graph, which sounds quite different from HD600, that explains why these graphs are so close.