Girl's legs severed during Six Flags ride
Jun 23, 2007 at 3:47 AM Post #31 of 62
It's a damn shame what happened... but the article doesn't seem to go to in-depth on how is happened. What sort of malfunction chops off someones feet?

In all, sad as it is, it won't stop me from continuing to enjoy coasters. I am a frequent visitor of Six Flags, and I plan to keep it that way... with no more fear than I had previously that I may be injured.
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 4:01 AM Post #32 of 62
Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif
in 2005 how many people drove a car? I feel very safe in my car..


You feel safe, but there is a difference between what you feel and what actually is. At any moment, someone could swerve into your lane, run a red light as you're going through the intersection, cut you off, or hit your car from behind. There are drunk and inexperienced drivers on the road, people with poorly maintained cars that can't brake properly, old drivers with slow reaction times, and many other innumerable factors that are beyond your control.

Driving a car gives a person a sense of control and power, of being in command of the situation, but in reality, you're not in control of anything, and your life is in danger from the moment you get in the car until the moment you step out.

Personally, I never feel safe when I am driving, because I am aware of the danger and of the fact that I can't control the other drivers on the road, or their cars. I can only do my best to look out for any potential problems.

Compare that to a roller coaster (for example.) The cars are anchored to the track, which is completely self-contained with nothing else on it. The entire system is computer controlled (proprietary OSes too, of course, no Windows there) and has many safeguards, not only in the computer system, but also simple mechanical failsafes as well. (And remember, simple is better.)

I have never, ever felt at all unsafe or worried when on a ride. Quite the opposite, riding coasters is as close to true, rapturous joy as I've come. It is a much deeper and more profound feeling for me than simply getting an adrenaline rush.
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 4:19 AM Post #33 of 62
It doesn't matter how safe I feel or how safe you feel, it matters how safe each individual person feels. A simple risk assessment. Is the pleasure you expect to derive from an amusement park ride worth the ~1/450,000,000 chance that you will die, or the higher risk that you will get injured? Each person decides that individually.

The issue here is that the ride physically broke. It wasn't the girl's heart or lungs or anything else that gave out, it was the ride. To me it's just disgusting and horrible that the damn cables weren't strong enough to remain intact. Whatever Six Flags ends up paying will be too little in my mind.
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 4:21 AM Post #34 of 62
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Schwartzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's a damn shame what happened... but the article doesn't seem to go to in-depth on how is happened. What sort of malfunction chops off someones feet?

In all, sad as it is, it won't stop me from continuing to enjoy coasters. I am a frequent visitor of Six Flags, and I plan to keep it that way... with no more fear than I had previously that I may be injured.



The ride is one of those freefall ones. A cable got wrapped around the girl's feet and severed them when the cable was pulled taut during the freefall.
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 4:51 AM Post #35 of 62
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
For now, let's just hope she survives, given what must have been a massive blood loss.


She would have to have been untreated for awhile before getting too much blood loss....as horrific as it sounds, it's not uncommon for people to loose hands or feet in accidents (especially lawn mowers). The worst thing is that since this injury occurred mid air with heavy cable, it would be harder to re-attach the feet. Even if they could find the feet in time, the soft tissue would probably be too damaged (they do re-attach amputations from blades fairly easily). The main concern is that blood vessels are intact and that nerves have to be present for rehabilitation of a functioning limb.

Well at least as horrible as it all is, if it were me I'd be grateful it wasn't my hands.

If you ask me, it is pretty horrible and is an example of an unsafe ride....it's not like the girl refused to get in a harness or had a heart condition
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 4:55 AM Post #36 of 62
Yeah I heard this on the news yesterday. It's a shame (and a pretty scary accident) but it's not going to stop me from enjoying amusement parks. You guys know the old saying...you're more likely to die on the way to the park than in the park itself.

Hope the girl is ok.
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 6:41 AM Post #40 of 62
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanG /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It doesn't matter how safe I feel or how safe you feel, it matters how safe each individual person feels. A simple risk assessment. Is the pleasure you expect to derive from an amusement park ride worth the ~1/450,000,000 chance that you will die, or the higher risk that you will get injured? Each person decides that individually.


Quote:

Originally Posted by DanG /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sums how I feel perfectly. I also been driving for 17 yrs..Only 1-2 minor fender benders.. I'll take that over 17 yrs of rides each day..
biggrin.gif


The issue here is that the ride physically broke. It wasn't the girl's heart or lungs or anything else that gave out, it was the ride. To me it's just disgusting and horrible that the damn cables weren't strong enough to remain intact. Whatever Six Flags ends up paying will be too little in my mind.



Sums how I feel perfectly. I also been driving for 17 yrs..Only 1-2 minor fender benders.. I'll take that over 17 yrs of rides each day..
biggrin.gif


Another concern of mine..
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 7:07 AM Post #41 of 62
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_Carter /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"The Agriculture Department is responsible for inspecting amusement park rides in Kentucky. "

Whhhhhhuuaaaatttt?



Typical sort of thing that people will get all up in arms about when these types of situations occur. Suddenly, everyone starts looking for simple labels to attach that will allow them to explain away such a terrible accident with a sentence or two.

In reality, I suspect that the matter of exactly which governmental department happens to be responsible (in name) for conducting inspections of amusement park rides has little, if anything, to do with how well such inspections are actually carried out, or indeed whether they're conducted by well qualified and experienced people.

It's not like the state of Kentucky has an Amusement Park Rides Insepection Department. Instead, they use broad, general categories and thus lump all sorts of thing together into various portfolios, yet maintain decentralized control at various levels within the reporting structure. Amusement parks didn't exist in the early years when Kentucky set up it's offical state-wide departments so I don't see this being a factor at all. The original county fairs were always agriculturally based so that's probably how amusement parks became part of the same portfolio.

What is relevant in this case is what what the reporting structure actually is, what kinds of inspection procedures and controls were put in place, how effectively and how regularly they were administered, whether there were any warning signs that were reported but then subsequently neglected, that sort of thing. In other words, they need to focus on the substance of it and not the form. Study the situation carefully and learn from it. Don't have a knee jerk reaction to introduce all sorts of new rules and regulations on the basis of one isolated occurrance.

Let the alarmists say what they want to but this situation may well have occurred in any event despite their best efforts to ensure safety. You hear people say things like, "We have to avoid this at all costs!" Oh really? All costs? Who is going to pay for it?

There is no such thing as a perfect system when it comes to physical, mechanical, moving parts, be they planes, trains, automobiles, or even amusement park rides. Not all accidents can be prevented when it comes to these things because physical stuff eventually breaks down or becomes obsolete. Buildings will one day crumble and fall but hopefully most of them will be condemned beforehand. Old planes are grounded if they fail inspections, and the same goes for cars.

The reality is that most people are willing to take that 1/450,000,000 chance and get on the ride. We don't necessarily need to make in 1/900,000,000 to deem it as being "safe" nor do we need to shut the whole park down for months because of an isolated incident that occurred on one ride, which may well be attiributed to a freakish event that could not have been predicted or controlled for.

Then again, maybe the cables had been showing signs of excessive wear for weeks, months, or even years, but nobody did anything to deal with the facts in front of them because to do so would mean a loss of profits. It's too soon to tell what the real story is but that's what the investigation should focus on, getting down to the nitty gritty of what went wrong and why. Until then, we can only speculate, but it didn't all happen because the guy in charge of everything only understands pigs and cows.
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 7:52 AM Post #43 of 62
yeah this sucks no doubt about it. But im still going to six flags as well as paramounts great america this summer, mulitple times.
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 8:04 AM Post #44 of 62
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
They've already reattached her feet.


wow, great news, seem like technology in medical use really improved quiet a bit in the past few years.
 
Jun 23, 2007 at 9:32 AM Post #45 of 62
I worked on Container Cranes and Ships that used wire-rope-reeved hoists for over thirty years.
While each mechanism is like unto itself alone, there are some generalizations that can be made about them as a class.
I have seen/ridden these sort of rides, and have seen the mechanisms of several of them.

IMHO, the accident will likely be found to be a combination of two factors: there is a limit switch that failed, and/or the wire rope parted due to age and wear.

The riders' platform is raised to some point, and stops, then it is released, to fall to some point at which the machine begins braking the fall (decelerating the platform) to a safe stop. It is really a variation of ELEVATOR, nothing more.
If the hoisting phase limit switch didn't sense the platform at top, then the mechanism may have (term of art) "two-blocked", with the mechanism at true limit of motion and still trying to lift more, thus straining the cables beyond their ability to handle the load. Then the cable parted, allowing the platform to drop. Now, Mr. Otis invented the drop brake that functions to stop the carriage safely when the cable becomes unattached many years ago. I am certain that some variation of that is on the affected ride.

Reports I heard about the ride's failure have the carriage falling some length, coming to a safe stop, then the wire rope unreeved (kinda like siphoning action, the weight of the wire rope pulled it through and out of all its pulleys) and fell. During their fall, some fell against the carriage, looping over the girl's legs, and when their weight and inertia bore against her lower legs, they were carried away. It would be a heavy (about one inch thick), greasy cable rope (weighs over five pounds a foot), that basically sawed/yanked her feet off. My heart goes out to her and her family. I hope she successfully recovers and has a long and happy life. It is unclear whether the rope parted first, or the riders fell first, then the cable parted.

Each run ("part") of the wire rope is comprised of six or seven "lays", each of which is made of between nineteen and twenty-five individual strands of steel. The limits I worked with in my job (hoisting thirty long ton containers) required me to inspect the wire ropes of the cranes before every use, during maintenance overhauls, and by hours of service. If any running foot of any single wire rope had two individual strands broken, the wire was declared unsafe and the crane was placed out of service. This was not in "manlifting" service. Between 112/114 and 173/175 of the original breaking strength (56 tons per run of the wire)was still there.

I'll bet the required inspections were not done, or the mechanism "two-blocked". It is subtle, when a wire rope begins to age, but it is easy to see one that is really getting ready to fail - it begins to look "fuzzy" from a distance, and looks like it is made up of fishhooks up close, with broken strands standing proud of the wire rope. It even goes from making nearly no noise to hissing/buzzing when it is near failure from breakage - you can hear a bad rope moving through pulleys.

Now turning from the ropes to the limit switches - limit switch failure cannot be predicted or tested for, Before it happens...it either is good to go, or it has failed. Hoists' design engineers guard against this by having two limits on every motion - the "end of travel" switch, and "ultimate stop" switch in each direction of each motion. Then there is a "Mechanical stop" that is like a block or face that the mechanism can run into, that mechanically prevents overtravel. Then beyond that, there is usually a load sensor or circuit breaker that will shut down the mechanism if it "sees" the overload condition beginning to occur. Thus, at a minimum, there are four different ways the motion is supposed to stop.

In nearly Thirty Years of running Cranes, I NEVER had a multiple, simultaneous limit switch failure. I did have a maintenance repairman wire some wrong, and on a different occasion bypass some. There is a possible failure mode.

So to boil it down, either someone didn't perform the required wire rope inspections (for a long time), or someone bypassed a faulty switchset, or both. Human Error, not machine failure. Those who don't know machines will want warning labels installed, or the machines "outlawed". Then they will leave their Hi-Rise office building, go home happily in their cars, over Bridges and through tunnels, and eat food prepared by others, use electrical devices made in whichever third-world country, and be oblivious.

As an aside, in my Private Airplane, I was periodically required to add yet another "Warning Label" "In the Plain View of the Pilot" whenever there had been yet another "wrongful death" blamed on the equipment. They read: "Don't Open Window During Flight", "Fuel Gages May Not Be Accurate", and so on... Not one of them made the machine any safer. I literally ran out of places to put the darn things! Plane was no safer than when it had none.
 

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