Getting started with Computer audio
Aug 21, 2010 at 7:31 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 33

beachgeek

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I am looking at get audio out of the computer and have no idea where to start, want to go cheapest route (LOL as if that will happen).
 
Should I get a good sound card for the computer?
 
Get a dac out of the computer?
 
Aug 21, 2010 at 8:06 PM Post #3 of 33
I am looking at get audio out of the computer and have no idea where to start, want to go cheapest route (LOL as if that will happen).
 
When you write cheap, that's such a subjective term.
 
How rock bottom cheap are you writing of?
 
I just went the route you write of, but I didn't do it on the cheap and it ran me some four hundred bucks for sound card and an upgraded power supply unit.  I also added into the mix, a set of Sennheiser HD650 headphones and a custom Double Helix Cable headphone cable which together, ran approximately another eight hundred dollars.
 
As to your tunes, get a pair of terabyte HDD's so you can back-up your tunes to the second HDD and rip everything WAV, 1.41Mbps.  You can get a pair of terabyte HDD's for less than two hundred dollars, which was already installed on the system.
 
What did I get for my money?  I got some really, really good sound quality that I'm happy with.  You can easily spend a boatload more than I did and you can easily spend much less.  What I did and spent, to me, hits the middle ground smartly.  I write the above to give you an idea of my kit and what it costs to get you going in the right direction.
 
Hope the above helps and good listening.
 
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Aug 21, 2010 at 8:54 PM Post #4 of 33
I have a good computer with a 900 watt power supply, so I should be OK there. I have the headphones and headphone amp.  I use the sound onboard the mother board and do not have a sound card.  I would like to go from computer to headphone amp to headphones.  Does the computer have line-out for an amp?
 
Aug 21, 2010 at 9:02 PM Post #6 of 33
My humble piece of advice, is that you consider only two options.
 
a) just get the cheapest option  for what you need (IF you just need an audio out, just get a cheap soundcard, or a motherboard with integrated audio (if you dont have a motherboard yet) and that will do quite fine). (a usb solution could work for you as well, there are soundcards, dac/amps, etc. that dont need audio out to work)
 
b) If you get in the mood for hi-fi stuff;
             - research a lot on these forums (and outside too), make yourself a general idea of what you need for your tastes and compare a lot of opinions, since many could be biased or just not enough informed.
             - Don't spend a single penny until you have done as told above. A lot.
             - If after your research you still find yourself in the mood for spending, make a decent investment. If you go the cheap-hifi way you may end up dissapointed. I'd say 1source (soundcard/dacamp, probably around 80-180€)+1out (headphones/speakers, id say no less than 110-140€ maybe) its what you need to get started (just stay away from high impedance headphones if you dont want to spend a lot of money in additional hardware). But again, if you do purchase these, research a lot and get decent hardware.
 
* Take into account that the budget of the people in here vary a lot, so while some consider pair of 130€ headphones to be "cheap and low end" others might not. I have seen people here getting headphones from 10 to 1000€.
 
I tell you all that because i started in this world with pair of 70€ headphones -my inital bet were a pair of 140€ beyerdynamic, but i just went the cheap way to test first- and while they are better than what i had, they left me quite unimpresed (specially for someone who considered 30€ headphones to be expensive).
 
 
Hope this helps a bit. I will update my impressions when i get a better soundcard.
 
 
EDIT:   you posted while i was writting, so let me add a few things:
 
       - add your pc interests (music, gaming, music and gaming etc) and people here will suggest you more specific hardware.
 
       - The source depends on the kind of plug your amp uses.  Whats the connector your amp uses? I you already have an amp, you can get either a soundcard or a dac/dac-amp. In the surface, the amp only improves volume and adds power to drive the higher impedance headphones (btw, knowing your headphone model and impedance (ohms) would help), while the soundcards and dacs improve sound quality (and reduce interferences from the other pc hardware, wich result in noise while you play audio) and also can bring some features that can be used on games or movies etc.
 
Aug 21, 2010 at 9:25 PM Post #7 of 33
I have a 5850 video card, but I do not think it has audio on it.  Good video though.  I use it for gaming and music, I have my computer, Intel I7 based, hooked up to a year old Sony 40" HDTV and it looks really good.  Most of this is not top of the line, just under it and at good sales.
 
I can probably spend up to 400 dollars in a month or two, but right now I am just looking.
Thanks for your help.
 
I do not know how audio works on the PC.  I am using a pair of Logitech 2.1 surround sound  that I bought for $20 3 years ago.  I was into video & gaming.  Then my dad had bypass surgery and he likes music too, so I am getting back into it to give him something to listen to and comment on, he is an EE also.
 
He is using a laptop.
 
Aug 22, 2010 at 12:22 AM Post #8 of 33
Your system is actually pretty good. I have a 4870Toxic and i can still play most games on max settings (1280x1024).
 
 
Well for that budget, and since you already have the amp, i think that you can get a great headphone and a great soundcard/dac.
 
Spending around 220€ -sorry about the euros- on the headphones (For instance the beyerdynamic DT880) and 180€ on the soundcard (for instance, the asus essence st/stx) you can get a killer sound system for gaming and music (in fact, those two togeter are refered as the "holy grail of gaming sound" in some thread around here, wich btw, is quite informative if you game a lot, and still, the Essence soundcard is considered one of the better quality soundcards for music and overall best sound quality over here).
 
There are loads of other options, but you probably are going to get those recommended a lot in Head-fi (btw, note that i only write based on others opinion, i do not own that hardware, but i can tell you that i have spent like a year reading these forums).
 
 
Depending on how much you game or listen to music you can get more music-centered or game-centered hardware (music centered often giving more sound quality at a better price (but with less gaming features) and game centered bringing game features like 3d-to-stereo virtualization and other stuff). The Essence for instance is designed mainly for music quality (in wich it is told to excel) while remaining great for gaming. You can get other cards (as the Forte) wich will give you more features for gaming but not such an high-end audio quality. Most of the dacs dont bring gaming features (with some exceptions) so they focus on sound quality and you may find great sounding ones cheaper than the soundcards.
 
 
For what you say about your father, maybe you are more interested in speakers than in headphones (i mean, if you both are going to be listening at the same time). In that field i cant tell you much, just to ensure that you get surround compatible hardware if you are going to be using 5.1 or 7.1 (etc) setups. (For instance, the Essence is mainly designed for headphones, although you can still plug speakers on it).
 
If you also want to switch all that harware from your pc to his laptop, then you will have to get only external hardware. External soundcard and/or dac(probably usb) to your amp to the headphones is the only solution that comes to my mind (well, you can add a lot of other stuff to that chain, but its not necessary). You wont be able to install an internal soundcard (as the essence is) in your laptop) and since the laptop probably does not have a quality built-in audio output, getting usb connected hardware lets you bypass all the internals of the laptop to get a clean audio signal (and less interference from the pc since the external units probably will be self energy supplied). The only drawback of the usb is that you cannot connect it to other internal soundcards or portable audio devices (like an ipod) wich dont bring usb plugs (wich i believe its all of them).
 
If you are not goint to use the laptop as much as the pc, you can always get a good soundcard for the pc, and then a dac wich you could plug both to your soundcard (so, no usb) and your laptop, and only switch the dac and your amp to your father's laptop. You will still get great audio quality, and since i presume that you wont be gaming seriously on the laptop, not having gaming routines its not a problem (they arent much of a deal anyways)
 
 
So, sumarizing.
 
     - Dacs and soundcards do pretty much the same thing (if they are quality soundcards), wich is giving a cleaner sound signal and better sound quality. From there you just have to ensure that they have the plugs that you need (headphones, 7.1 or whatever you want to use) and maybe if you want any special gaming feature (cmss3d, dolby headphone, etc. not really needed unless you are a hardcore gamer, and still, not really needed) (as a personal tip, the dolby headphone effect is also used in music and movies, and while it is a matter of preferences, you may like it. I like what it does to music, sounds more natural and real, but it makes the instrumentals a bit louder than the voices).
 
- Amplifiers only provide the power needed by your headphones to reach good volume levels (wich in some cases means audio quality too, since you cant appreciate the details of the audio if you cant provide enough volume). This is not a real concern for lower impedance headphones (around 32-80ohms) but it is for cans over 150ohms (well, that scale varies depending on the quality of the amplifier). So a 32 ohm headphone will sound better out of onboard or a low-power amplifier than a 600ohm verison of the same headphone. And since i dont think that the difference between impedance in headphones of the same model is really that big, you should not bother to get into the high impedance world of wasting money (on expensive dacs and headphones) just to get tiny differences. Again, this is a matter of taste and budget (with maybe a little snob factor on it).
 
Sorry for my late-at-night english...
 
Aug 22, 2010 at 12:57 AM Post #10 of 33
Great recommendations above.
 
I would just add that I greatly prefer DT770 to DT880 for gaming.
 
I'm not sure how exactly you plan to split this setup between your computer and your father's laptop.  If they are both at the same desk, consider getting yourself a gaming sound card, I personally use the X-Fi XtremeMusic (X-Fi chip, 3D-CMSS for games) with S/PDIF output to a DAC/Amp combo, the Audio-GD Sparrow which is a fantastic budget minimalistic setup.  It can also be set up for USB input in case the laptop does not have S/PDIF.  You have your gaming via S/PDIF from your computer's sound card and your father can have music through USB or if the laptop has S/PDIF output, use another one (you can have 3 inputs on the Sparrow - optical, coax and one more; either USB or another coax).
 
Aug 22, 2010 at 12:59 AM Post #11 of 33
I also have the 5850. It is good enough. Plays every game I throw at it maxed out with no lag with my i7 920 at 4ghz. So you will be fine there as far as gaming goes. 900w psu is huge overkill, as you only really need a good quality 550w psu, but who am I to speak, I have a 1200w psu 
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 Used to have tri sli gtx 285 so yeah...
 
Lol anyway...I would go for the DAC route. Soundcards are usually a waste for audio. Sure, they can be great, but a good DAC will blow it out of the water. A good DAC and amp would be a great start. For $400, you are quite limited (as I would tend to want to spend just that on a DAC, and then another $400 on an amp). Onboard optical/coax is fine to be used as a transport to a DAC. If you do not have this, either buy something like the M2Tech HiFace or just get a DAC with USB input. 
 
For gaming, I use the X-Fi Elite Pro and it works wonders, but onboard audio with my Zero DAC and M^3 amp (both cost me $370aud without postage) is just fine. Matrix Mini-i would be a great DAC/amp combo, and it should be fine for your current headphones, but it is up to you: Do you want a seperate DAC and amp, a DAC/AMP? More expensive amp or DAC? etc. Audio-GD also has some great offerings if you want to try them.
 
edit: @FallenAngel, I always use DT880 for gaming as they are always on my head when at my computer, but I believe AD700 is a lot better. I think I will have to give DT770 a go some day for gaming. Which version? Pro or premium? Which ohm etc?
 
Aug 22, 2010 at 1:10 AM Post #13 of 33
Ah thanks, thought it might be the DT770Pro/80. They are supposed to be bass monsters though. I could barely stand the bass from the MarkL modded D5000. My DT880 600ohm (no mods at all) have plenty of bass for my liking. Even K1000 bass light with valhalla cable (yes, Patrick82's) had almost too much bass for me. 
 
It seems that if you are a gamer, consider these 3 headphones:
 
DT770 Pro 80ohm
DT880 Premium (any ohm model really)
ATH-AD700
 
Aug 22, 2010 at 1:22 AM Post #14 of 33


Quote:
It seems that if you are a gamer, consider these 3 headphones:  
DT770 Pro 80ohm
DT880 Premium (any ohm model really)
ATH-AD700

 
Note that, with the exception of the DT880, those headphones have a strong focus for gaming (the dt770 because of its loads of bass, wich can be good for gaming immersion and to make the explosions crap your pants, but wich can result overwhelming in songs, and the ad700 au contraire, because lacks bass -and has a great positional audio- and while it can be great for competitive gaming due to its capability to isolate and pinpoint footsepts, for instance, you may not like it for music, movies and immersive gaming)
 
 
Aug 22, 2010 at 1:27 AM Post #15 of 33
Yes well DT880 are one of the best all round headphones imo. Great for music, gaming and movies. 
 
ATH-AD700 I only use when competitively gaming. I haven't used them since December of last year, but I don't want to sell them just yet. They are the best gaming headphones imo (I tried DT880, K701, ALO-780 etc). That reminds me, I should try my K1000 for gaming 
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 Patrick82's, but I recabled them (valhalla was way too stiff, hurt my neck). Haven't paid a cent for them yet haha. Don't know if I will keep or not. 
 
Anyway, OP, check out some reviews of Matrix Mini-i and Audio-GD offerings. I personally love my Zero DAC/amp combo, but it is your decision to make. BTW, do you think you want a tube or solid state amp? I think tubes would be better with your current headphone list.
 

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