[silverrain]

In my old band days, we all switched to SS equipment, because of tubes "giving up" during shows. NOT good.

So, my question:

If I bought one of the many new tube headphone amps now being offered for sale,

1) Do they always come with tubes, or do you have to buy them separate?
2) How long do the tubes generally LAST before "giving up"?

Okay, I lied -- it's TWO questions -- but, I am curious about currently available tube amps, and have no inclination, time, or desire to do "tube rolling" as part of my hobby, like so many of you obviously do enjoy doing.

So, I am wondering about ability to unpack a tube amp, and then "plug-n-play" without hassles, same as done with SS amps.

Is it do-able?
Or do you have to "marry" a tube amp, and put up with its "quirks"?

 

[The Pieman]

I bought my WOO WA2 about 10 months ago. It came with tubes and was pretty much unpack, plug it in, insert tubes, power up and use. I haven't had any issues at all with it. I have done a little bit of tube rolling but I am like you, not that interested in doing much rolling. Tube rolling is right up there with opamp rolling. Touch wood, none of my tubes have given up. But I will admit to having spare pairs available.

I like the tube amp more than the SS amps I have. It has much more depth to the sound and just sounds more complete.

cheers
Simon

 

[M0T0XGUY]

If you buy a tube amp new, it'll almost certainly come with the proper driving tubes. Check the manufacturers website for details, of course, but otherwise assume that you won't need to purchase separate tubes unless you feel like doing so.

As far as your second question, I'll say that tube life varies. In general, an average tube will last 1000-2000 hours - a few years or so, depending on your listening habits - but, of course, some will last longer, and some will crap out before their full expectancy.

Lastly, I'll agree with The Pieman in commenting that new tube amps are very simple to set up and use. Follow the procedure you'd expect in a regular SS amp, and then install the tubes lastly as one additional step. My amp was up and running in a matter of minutes, for example, and I had no prior experience with tube-based audio equpiment.

Hope that helped,
Nick

 

[silverrain]

Well, it's starting to sound encouraging...
I guess now, the researching begins -- the thing that started me thinking about this, is the many peeps that say Grados go well with tube amps, and I have 325i and 225, so naturally I wonder....

 

[Uncle Erik]

Most amps come with a set of tubes, but not all of them. If you buy an amp, make sure tubes are either in production or readily available.

Tube life depends on how hard the tubes are driven. Ask the manufacturer about this - there's no answer that applies to all of them.

Instrument tube amps are very different from audio ones. Instrument amps usually overdrive tubes to produce distortion. That might sound good, but it eats through tubes fast. Also, a lot of guitarists like the sound of old, drifting carbon comp resistors and marginal caps. That isn't so great for tubes, either.

Generally, audio amps are run at more conservative levels because you don't want them to distort. Also, you usually have precision components that don't drift and keep the tubes within normal operating limits.

Audio tube amps are generally easy to live with. Most don't need to be biased or maintained, either. Just change the tubes every few years and enjoy.

And yeah, your Grados will love them!

 

[BigEat]

I generally agree with Uncle Erik. Almost all of the tube amps for sale will come with tubes, the question is to some degree the sonic quality etc. of the tubes, but most have reliable, good sounding tubes as part of the package. Also, most of the tubes are fairly standard so you can obtain replacements relatively easy at places like Tube Depot just to name one.

I will say however, with the proliferation of new tube equipment, they ain't as easy to find as they once were. That's particularly true with the lower output headphone amp tubes. Even "new old stock" is harder to find and may not have warranties.

As far as life of the tube, it does depend on how hard they are driven. But it can also depend of course on whether you leave the amp on etc. Also, current stability is a factor. I personally think a good quality power conditioner can greatly enhance tube life. I've also heard leaving the amp on during brief interludes in listening may be better than turning the amp off and then on again a half our later. The subtle surge in the on/off apparently can shorten life. Also, keeping the tubes somewhat cooler is key. The more warm the environment, the more stress on the tubes as well. Keeping the tubes clean (no fingerprints, dust, etc.) is key.

 

[Skylab]

Right - a lot of tube amps come with crappy stock tubes (current production russian/chinese tubes). Some NOS/vintage USA/western tubes will generally improve the sound. Plus tube-rolling is a lot of fun!

 

[tfarney]

I abused guitar amp tubes and carried them around unprotected in vans, pickups, trunks, trailiers etc for years. I don't think I ever had one fail on me. They get to the point where replacing them is a good thing, though. But given the abuse guitar amp tubes get, and how long they last, I suspect that under the light duty of a headphone amp, good tubes will last for years. If I bought a good tube amp, though, the very first thing I'd do is look for a set of new, old stock, American or European tubes from the golden age and pack up the Russian or Chinese stock tubes for emergencies.

I once pulled Groove Tubes (Russian) out of a '65 Deluxe Reverb and replaced them with unused Visseaux 6v6s from 1951. It was a sonic revelation. Preamp tubes make a lot less difference, but I chased down some NOS GEs and Sylvanias for good measure.

Tim

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif I abused guitar amp tubes and carried them around unprotected in vans, pickups, trunks, trailiers etc for years. I don't think I ever had one fail on me. They get to the point where replacing them is a good thing, though. But given the abuse guitar amp tubes get, and how long they last, I suspect that under the light duty of a headphone amp, good tubes will last for years. If I bought a good tube amp, though, the very first thing I'd do is look for a set of new, old stock, American or European tubes from the golden age and pack up the Russian or Chinese stock tubes for emergencies. I once pulled Groove Tubes (Russian) out of a '65 Deluxe Reverb and replaced them with unused Visseaux 6v6s from 1951. It was a sonic revelation. Preamp tubes make a lot less difference, but I chased down some NOS GEs and Sylvanias for good measure. Tim

This has been my experience as well, tubes abused in guitar amps gamely taking it without issue, but other gear failing (EH pedals were notorious for crapping out prematurely back in the day) was quite regular. The stuff that failed on me was early SS FX pedals and rack gear....go figure.

Also like Tim, I prefer to hunt down NOS tubes right away and put the stock tubes away as emergency replacements. When I think back to some of the environments my Marshall and Fender amps survived.....

. It's a wonder they didn't blow up ..they didn't

Most (not all) amps today are well built, with modern safety measures that old tube amps didn't have......they are really reliable in my experience over the last 35 years if taken care of properly. Maintain and transport tube gear properly (ie good flight case for heads, change/bias tubes on regular basis), and they will give you years and years of trouble free pleasure...

I love amps with auto bias

Best invention since disposable diapers

Peete.

 

[silverrain]

Wow -- so many tube-guitar amp users on here -- surprised me.
Yeah, gotta admit, they sometimes got some rough treatment....

All this nifty tube talk has "cleared the waters" on tube stuff a bit more for me -- now I get this sudden urge to maybe try tube-rolling!

Who'da thunk it?

My style would be to stash the original tubes for backup, and put in more robust (better?) tubes for regular use, as so many posted about.

Now, the real work begins -- deciding on which tube amp for a starter, to see if I actually like the little beasties...or not.

Thanks for all the replies, and if anybody wants to suggest a starter "try-one-out" tube amp, here's a chance.

So, the usual Head-Fi dilemma -- spend less in case I don't like them as a class, or spend more, and assume it gives a better SQ that I would perhaps like, compared to a lower-priced amp....

Of course, there is always the FS forum here if an amp just doesn't agree with me.

*sigh*

 

[BigTony]

I was in the same position, spent 8 months thinking about it.
In the end i went for DV332, i figured i needed a good amp to get an appreciable difference, and if i didn'tly get on with it, i'd sell it on.

But after a week of listening, its a keeper, and i've yet to use my NOS tubes!

As for guitar amps, my tube amp never let me down, but i've blown a few SS amps!

Good luck chosing!

BT

 

[Uncle Erik]

Check the For Sale Forum and buy a used tube amp. Good ones come up every week or so. If you don't like it, you can sell it for about what you paid. You might want to check at Audiogon, too. I saw a few there the other day.

 

[silverrain]

Thanks for the replies -- and, yes, I have been lurking the FS forum to get some ideas of what is available -- almost made a couple impulse buys already, but still gathering eveidence, and reading-up on the various tube amp postings on Head-Fi (which is a lot!) -- once I get a feel for things, I'll take the leap....

 

[moogoob]

I'm following this thread, as I'm in the same boat as you. Got Grados, need tubes.

 

[silverrain]

Well, I went for a Darkvoice 336SE as a "starter" tube amp -- I'll see what happens when that puppy gets here....

And, contrary to what I originally posted, I have already started my "tube-rolling" quest by buying two replacement tubes from another generous Head-Fi'er....

I betch all you tube-amp peeps already KNEW that was gonna happen, didn't you?

My wallet (again) thanks you all!