Geek Wold Discussion

[430633]

i would add to this list the software player who plays a major role in the music reproduction chain with the same weight of the IEM.
i am a software guy, and i'm surprised at how much that factor is underestimated in favor of hardware.

Could you give some examples? Personally I haven't heard much difference in *software unless EQ is applied/active (everything set to flat)

 

[ZAXon 7]

Could you give some examples? Personally I haven't heard much difference in sources unless EQ is applied/active (everything set to flat)

from my experience software players share the same characteristics as iem, that is every one has it's technicalities level and it's tuning as well as it's soundstage etc...
i have very limited hardware resources to test, but with my axon7 mini and zax there is an enormous difference between the onkyo hf player and any other hifi player like neutron or foobar for android mostly in terms of tuning, presentation, soundstage and dynamics.

i do not use EQ nor PEQ (only because i've never been able to craft a decent sound with them) instead i use viper4android with which i can easily find the perfect sound for the music and my mood of the moment.

as always it all comes to the overall synergy between every single component and personal preferences, but technicalities and tuning of the software player are so influent, at least to me.

 

[430633]

from my experience software players share the same characteristics as iem, that is every one has it's technicalities level and it's tuning as well as it's soundstage etc...
i have very limited hardware resources to test, but with my axon7 mini and zax there is an enormous difference between the onkyo hf player and any other hifi player like neutron or foobar for android mostly in terms of tuning, presentation, soundstage and dynamics.

i do not use EQ nor PEQ (only because i've never been able to craft a decent sound with them) instead i use viper4android with which i can easily find the perfect sound for the music and my mood of the moment.

as always it all comes to the overall synergy between every single component and personal preferences, but technicalities and tuning of the software player are so influent, at least to me.

That's really interesting to hear. Are they playing at level-matched volumes? (eg. 0dB vs -6dB)

 

[ZAXon 7]

That's really interesting to hear. Are they playing at level-matched volumes? (eg. 0dB vs -6dB)

probably i do not completely understand your question, but if you're asking if i play the same tracks through different players at the same volume level to test the differences, i must say that i didn't pay much attention to that factor, only tried to find the right volume for me at the moment.

 

[dw1narso]

Could you give some examples? Personally I haven't heard much difference in *software unless EQ is applied/active (everything set to flat)

Phoenix, just curious, and genuinely asking.... What softwares have you tried on mobile phones and PCs?

On my Windows PC, after trying few softwares in the past , I found Foobar is difficult to beat and never look for others. Yes it has very good modularity and plugins, but I also found it to sound better than most other software player. On foobar itself, I could hear it perform substantially better with WASAPI than Windows Direct Sound when driving External DAC.

With my LG V20 built-in DAC or TWS, I also prefer Foobar to Hiby, Fiio, Dead Beef, Onkyo HF, etc. and even LG own Audio player. (Note: I never try paid player such as Neutron or UAPP). I haven't tried a lot of my mobile phone driving external USB DAC cause it will eat battery quite fast. But at least I found that Hiby that sound so so with Android audio stack will transform many folds once I set it to drive USB DAC directly. Hiby for USB DAC surpassing Foobar, because Foobar cannot drive USB DAC directly..

I don't use Eq or PEQ on my software players.

 

[430633]

Phoenix, just curious, and genuinely asking.... What softwares have you tried on mobile phones and PCs?

On my Windows PC, after trying few softwares in the past , I found Foobar is difficult to beat and never look for others. Yes it has very good modularity and plugins, but I also found it to sound better than most other software player. On foobar itself, I could hear it perform substantially better with WASAPI than Windows Direct Sound when driving External DAC.

With my LG V20 built-in DAC or TWS, I also prefer Foobar to Hiby, Fiio, Dead Beef, Onkyo HF, etc. and even LG own Audio player. (Note: I never try paid player such as Neutron or UAPP). I haven't tried a lot of my mobile phone driving external USB DAC cause it will eat battery quite fast. But at least I found that Hiby that sound so so with Android audio stack will transform many folds once I set it to drive USB DAC directly. Hiby for USB DAC surpassing Foobar, because Foobar cannot drive USB DAC directly..

I don't use Eq or PEQ on my software players.

I've tried WMP, VLC, Groove Music, Freemake Audio Player and others on pc without noticeable difference, and different native music players (LG Class & G6 Quad and Poco X3) and Onkyo HF player without noticeable difference either. No EQ and no Hi-Res whatsoever (on Onkyo HF turning on the EQ with everything set to flat in the middle negatively affects SQ though)

 

[430633]

Although latency and lag does differ between software. Anyway, unless somebody has something game-changing to add in regarding this, this will be my last post on the software topic to not derail this thread. Pm me if there's anything

 

[AmericanSpirit]

i would add to this list the software player who plays a major role in the music reproduction chain with the same weight of the IEM.
i am a software guy, and i'm surprised at how much that factor is underestimated in favor of hardware.

I mean DAP as a whole comprehensive mix of hardware and software, but your point makes a good note! Yes software player is very important factor too!

 

[redrol]

Look you post this:

All I see here is very typical variation within measurement error. There is zero chance anyone could ever tell any differences. Yes cables may have different impedances but all this does is SLIGHTLY make them quieter or not.. and this wouldn't be hearable anyhow. It's linear across 20hz-20khz.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Look you post this:

All I see here is very typical variation within measurement error. There is zero chance anyone could ever tell any differences. Yes cables may have different impedances but all this does is SLIGHTLY make them quieter or not.. and this wouldn't be hearable anyhow. It's linear across 20hz-20khz.

Take look at different links Redrol, see shift in impulse response and the explanation of impedance change in impact on overall sonic signature. I know you have Softears RSV and it is pretty cable (impedance ) sensitive IEM. If you add 20ohm impedance adapter, you surely will get 5-10db of bass boost and change in treble region transients, changing cable does less a couple of ohms but still it’s a change, someone with sensitive ears to the transient response would take that as a valuable transformation and someone else may not. Again, it’s ok, personal opinion, it’s also OK to take that as placebo, I’m not denying that. Just providing some information for rest of community.

I read a placebo study of burn-in before, the article was too old and double blind-test selections were kinda fuzzy, some cherry pickings. If you also have read that I’d just recommend reading the links above about time-lapse measurements of burn-in effect. Again, I would emphasize this

-Frequency response chart by sine sweep is not “whole picture” of the sound, it’s just one dimension, impulse response, square wave transient measurement, change in impedance response, and many other factors that we are yet to discover by audio science is happening

here is my another post in regards “undiscovered phenomenon doesn’t mean the existence of the impact”

 

[redrol]

Take look at different links Redrol, see shift in impulse response and the explanation of impedance change in impact on overall sonic signature. I know you have Softears RSV and it is pretty cable (impedance ) sensitive IEM. If you add 20ohm impedance adapter, you surely will get 5-10db of bass boost and change in treble region transients, changing cable does less a couple of ohms but still it’s a change, someone with sensitive ears to the transient response would take that as a valuable transformation and someone else may not.

Heh. The RSV responds with more bass the lower the Output Impedance is.

And again, cables are linear impedance over the entire human hearable range. They will not do anything. I've tested most of my cables and they are around 0.04 - 0.1ohm.

 

[430633]

For cables I've been wondering about the following, if they affect:
1. Crosstalk
2. Phase
3. Harmonic distortion within different orders (not total, this has been measured)
4. Impulse response/CSD

 

[redrol]

No, No, No, and Nope.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Heh. The RSV responds with more bass the lower the Output Impedance is. From 4ohm down to .05 OI, bass goes up around 4-5db at 35hz.

And again, cables are linear impedance over the entire human hearable range. They will not do anything. I've tested most of my cables and they are around 0.04 - 0.1ohm.

・ Crosstalk characteristic change due to change in common impedance of GND The
output impedance of the amplifier is Z , the impedance of the earphone receiver (driver) is R , and the impedance of
the common part of the GND line and the other part of the cable is set
respectively. Assuming Rc and Rh , the magnitude of the reverse phase crosstalk generated in the cable when Rc << Z + R + Rh
is
20log [Rc / (Z + R + Rh + Rc)] (dB) .

Yes output impedance is a huge driver there it’s the majority I would have to say, cable does little contribution, but still the impact isn’t oblivious. Let’s stop this off-topics, it’s GK10 thread and you seemingly not even owning GK10 for the discussion.

For cables I've been wondering about the following, if they affect:
1. Crosstalk
2. Phase
3. Harmonic distortion within different orders (not total, this has been measured)
4. Impulse response/CSD

The guy measured those aspects too, it’s worth a glimpse

 

[redrol]

Yeah I'll be in SoundScience if anyone wants to discuss cables. Sorry bout that.