Geek Pulse: Geek desktop DAC/AMP by Light Harmonics

[Phishin Phool]

All products purchased from our website are entitled to the return/refund policy we have listed.  Perks that you back on IGG are not eligible for such a return or refund policy.

deceptive at a minimum and soon I should know if criminal or civil violation. To force somebody to go through your site , which I did, and then claim the ordering channel isn't sufficient for warranty is ridiculous to me that is no different than if I had bought it at a retail store and then you decided you weren't going to honor the warranty because I bought it from a dealer instead of your website.

 

[SilverTrumpet999]

I'm going to chime in here with about the IGG terms of service. There seems to be some major misunderstandings about exactly what the below section means. Hopefully this will bring some clarity.
 

Campaign Owners are permitted to offer Perks to Contributors. Campaign Owners are legally bound to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors (including delivering any Perks). Campaign Owners will respond promptly and truthfully to all questions posed to them by Indiegogo or any Contributor. If any Campaign Owner is unable to fulfill any of its commitments to Contributors (including delivering any Perks), the Campaign Owner will work with the Contributors to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, which may include refunding their Contributions. Campaign Owners will comply with all applicable laws and regulations in the use of Contributions and delivery of Perks.

 
First of all - the definition of "promptly" is not defined. A response is required, but it doesn't have to be within any particular time frame. Also, hypothetically, if someone throws the ball back into your court (add to Skype, say call literally any time) and you drop it by not responding... they have fulfilled their obligation. It does not read "must keep harassing the backer who asked until confirmation they've read the answer has been obtained." The responsibility is bidirectional, and good faith is required on both sides.
 
Second - there is a huge difference between requiring truth and requiring the whole truth/full disclosure. The former just means not to lie, and is a good rule to live by. That's all! The second is what we require of people testifying in court. The obligation isn't just to tell the truth, but the entire truth with nothing left out. IGG requires honesty, but not full disclosure. Demanding access to internal documents, statistics, or other business information will and should be met with a (prompt) pat on the head saying "Thanks for your inquiry, this isn't public information. Enjoy your day." See how that works? Completely honest and prompt is all that's required. No backer is entitled to more than this. Please stop incorrectly using the IGG ToS to claim otherwise.
 
Finally - regarding commitment to perk delivery. That clause has no end date, only that they do get fulfilled. Triggering the "Unable to fulfill" section is reserved for initiatives which fall apart completely with zero chance of delivering a perk before the heat death of the universe. Agitating about this because of delivery delays has no basis in the ToS; any such claims should be summarily dismissed.
 
 
There have been valid criticisms raised. However, some of the most scathing have exactly zero basis. Please keep the above in mind moving forward.
 
Back on topic: hopefully waiting for my Xfi to ship.

 

[Phishin Phool]

Casey, exactly where does it say that the order needed to be placed through your website it says items purchased from LH labs? If I didn't put my order in with LH labs who did it get put in with?

after all the let downs that Backers have experience why you force them to stay in your crooked game is beyond me

 

[jexby]

Casey, exactly where does it say that the order needed to be placed through your website it says items purchased from LH labs? If I didn't put my order in with LH labs who did it get put in with?

after all the let downs that Backers have experience why you force them to stay in your crooked game is beyond me

Could you go back and check your PayPal receipts for IGG contributions and kindly reply back with what the field
Receiver email:

Says?

Because that's who you have paid.

 

[Phishin Phool]

Could you go back and check your PayPal receipts for IGG contributions and kindly reply back with what the field
Receiver email:

Says?

Because that's who you have paid.

I just checked my invoices and I paid LH labs corporation

Lhlabs@lightharmonics.com


thanks I was just about to do that I went into my paypal account this ought to make things a lot easier to present my case to the attorney general's office

 

[greenkiwi]

   
 
So you highly recommend to leave the unit turned on 24/7, yet absolve yourself from any responsibility if doing that very thing causes issues?  Huh?  
 
The US power grid is not perfect.... brownouts, surges, quick half second off/on flips, power outages, etc. do occur... for some, they occur multiple times a day depending on the weather and time of year...  this is not a new phenomenon.... it's well documented and common knowledge....
 
So knowing this, and knowing that it could happen at any time, it removes the ability for users to do controlled shutdowns and start up, and remove the headphones from being connected while this is happening.  
 
As a result, you don't knowingly design a component that can have issues on power up/power down if not done in a certain order or with other devices connected to it.  That's just bad design, plain and simple.  
 
 
You may want to amend the manual and say that it is a requirement that all LH Labs components need to be connected to a UPS to avoid equipment damage due to unintended power cycles and you aren't responsible for any damage where the equipment isn't connected to your approved list of UPS units.  You can sell a Pulse UPS to prevent damage and generate more revenue.  Tongue firmly in cheek on that one...
 
for all the technical expertise that supposedly exists, a dose of common sense seems to be lacking in many respects.....

I actually agree with this, and I believe that it has been brought up and supposedly it will be in the "next meeting" that at LHLabs and @LarryHo is supposedly looking into seeing if something can be added to future devices, potentially including the Xfinity (or maybe just the A2Q version of it... who knows.)
 
I do hope that they can provide a solution that protects downstream devices.  

 

[jexby]

I just checked my invoices and I paid LH labs corporation

Thanks for checking,
Guess I don't understand the ordering process you followed as all of my payments were to crowd funding sites for products not yet ready for shipment.
Thus, all my payments say:
Receiver email: paypal@indiegogo.com

 

[AGO4]

I just checked my invoices and I paid LH labs corporation

Lhlabs@lightharmonics.com


thanks I was just about to do that I went into my paypal account this ought to make things a lot easier to present my case to the attorney general's office

I'm not sure what invoice you are looking at since all my payments are made to Indiegogo, i.e., my credit card and PayPal statements show all payments being made to Indiegogo. 

 

[a_recording]

It's really very simple. All LH had to do was say:
 
"Lachlan, sorry. We dropped the ball on this. Obviously there is something wrong with the support ticket system if a customer has to wait 1 month to arrange an RMA for a severe hardware fault. We did try to reach out to you directly to resolve this issue, but we acknowledge that something went wrong with the first line of support. No customer should have to communicate with PR to get technical support issues resolved. Let's get you unit in house ASAP, because we are very concerned about the problem demonstrated by your unit."
 
Instead, the tenor of the response from LH has been:
 
We reached out, YOU didn't respond.
Our support system works great! 20 hour turnaround time. No problems.
We've never seen this problem. In my opinion, it's YOUR error.
We've done everything right. Look at all these positive comments we get! YOU seem to have some agenda against us.
 
Even if you've walked back on *some* of these comments, your initial reaction has always been to reach for the defensive and the condescending without trying to actually understand exactly what has gone wrong.
 
I didn't say this until now, but in the Skype call, Casey and Gavin literally had the gall to ask me if I was kicking up a fuss because I had "hurt feelings". I was literally speechless. Where do you get off patronising a customer when the entire situation has arisen out of errors on your side?
 
Is it really so hard to believe that all the vitriol and anger directed at LH is because when a problem comes up, they are defensive and passive aggressive about it? Customer service isn't about winning some kind of game against the customer where you browbeat beat them while simultaneously taking their money hostage.
 
The company is run by cowboys who think that crowdfunding is some kind of Wild West, and then they act bemused and defensive when people get angry about it.

 

[Phishin Phool]

Thanks for checking,
Guess I don't understand the ordering process you followed as all of my payments were to crowd funding sites for products not yet ready for shipment.
Thus, all my payments say:
Receiver email: paypal@indiegogo.com

I ordered under the forever funding after the regular campaign was closed and I had made arrangements with light harmonic to pay off of payment plan in a lump sum early and if they could just invoice me and they did so (although incorrectly twice which took 3 weeks 3 customer service reps, and two tickets and then continuous postings at lh forums (although the repeated posts were because they didn't show up due to me not realizing 30 posts are monitored)) so I made the pledge to indiegogo and got invoiced several times by lh all of which I have copies of. Thanks I am going to add these to my documentation and argue that

If I had to sign up at LH to be a geek force member (or whatever it is called)
Lh is the Campaign Sponsor and who is responsible for fulfilling the obligations of the perks
I have to go through LH for service and support
LH on their letterhead invoiced me for the cost of my unit
The same website LH that I use for everything else prominently displays the return /refund policy


I submit that I have a deal with LH and as such they need to honor it in its entirety

 

[kugino]

i was a backer of the pulse xfi...but recently sold it before even receiving it. i have my own issues about LHLabs, mostly about their customer service and ticket system -  because i've had some bad experiences with it both as a backer of the GO and now as a backer of the pulse. to be fair, in the end all my issues were resolved to my satisfaction.
 
but reading the last 10 or so pages of this thread, i just get this weird feeling in my stomach. you know the feeling you get when you know something is wrong but just can't put your finger on it? i have that feeling. i hope i'm wrong and i hope everything turns out for the best with LHLabs and all the backers of their products. but like they say in star wars, "i have a bad feeling about this."
 
unsubbed

 

[jaywillin]

I guess im lucky, ive only had two issues, i had to wait like everyone else and i got upset about the warranty deal , other that that, im pleased as punch , pink foam and all ! Lol

 

[Maelob]

I already given up, whatever comes comes.  lesson learned from me is #$% crowd design. Shame on all Geek Force that kept asking for stuff, including me lol.   no more, don't want to be asked anymore.  Funny,  I just contributed to the HiFi Skyn DAC/AMP for my IPOD, which was the original intent for Geek Wave (for which I spent 400 and no longer is an iOS dac), and guess what it is already designed and will be delivered soon. What a roller coaster

 

[Phishin Phool]

  i was a backer of the pulse xfi...but recently sold it before even receiving it. i have my own issues about LHLabs, mostly about their customer service and ticket system -  because i've had some bad experiences with it both as a backer of the GO and now as a backer of the pulse. to be fair, in the end all my issues were resolved to my satisfaction.
 
but reading the last 10 or so pages of this thread, i just get this weird feeling in my stomach. you know the feeling you get when you know something is wrong but just can't put your finger on it? i have that feeling. i hope i'm wrong and i hope everything turns out for the best with LHLabs and all the backers of their products. but like they say in star wars, "i have a bad feeling about this."
 
unsubbed

I understand. I  am glad it worked out for you. I hope the pulse is a great unit - all versions. I wanted to be a customer/backer. I ordered it thinking it would be fantastic and maybe it is but I also ordered it with the following understanding
a) I was paying more by having waited till forever funding but since plain pulses were shipping the risk was less as that was what I wanted
b) LH has a clear refund policy on their website  that says  I could return it in new condition for a full refund (minus shipping costs I assume)
c) At that time warranties were supposedly transferable
I really  really wanted a pulse and I wanted it to be great but at a minimum I knew it was better than my other SS option my AVR but didn't expect the headphone part to outshine my tube amp as I like tubes but with pre-outs that was no problem and with  both headphone and pre-outs active at that the same time I was really happy as 2 of us could listen at the same time (1 set of cans -my guest could use a headphone of their choice and the pulse and I could run the signal simultaneously to my tube amp and all would be well. After being in this thread though and at LH forums for some time I just really don't want anything to do with LH at this point for a number of reasons  and though I never thought it would come to this I am at the point I wish to avail myself of their refund/return policy they have posted on their website b) from above. As mentioned elsewhere I think I have a pretty strong case so I hope to be able to return it but if I can't then when it comes I will enjoy it but still loathe LH . What I don't get is that since LH has obviously lost me as a customer indefinitely why would they (over $400) want to give me an axe to grind toward them when they could simply honor the stated terms and honor a return/refund as posted and then I say to myself all I am out is essentially a few minutes of my time and minimal aggravation and I go on to somebody else I am happy with and never give them another thought.and am never heard from again [ I would go through the charade of them shipping it and me shipping it back but why not avoid such foolishness and then they already have one more on hand to fill orders]
 
Edit: I do not think LH is a ponzi scheme though (at this moment)

 

[Maelob]

Refund? If you contributed via Forever Campaign there is no refund.  The refund policy in their website is bogus and don't mention anything about IGG.  So I don't think you will be able to get a refund unless you buy it directly from their website. Believe me I thought I was going to do that with my Pulse, and Mono Amp that I bought thinking it was a Stereo. No way out, we are all in.