[wcarpenter]

Hello All,
 
I'd love some advice on a good, relatively low budget headphone/amp setup. I'd love to spend somewhere between $500 and $1000, though gear at the higher end of that spectrum would need some pretty good justification. My source would be a computer feeding either lossless AIFFs or 320kbs MP3. Because the source is digital, I was thinking that a DAC might be a good addition to the setup. The Cambridge Audio DACmagic seemed like a good performance/value compromise. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
A friend of mine has the Ultrasone HFI-680s and they sounded great to me. They're relatively affordable, too. I'd love to hear your thoughts on them. On the amp/DAC side, I thought the Musical Fidelity M1HPA seemed like a potential option. The combined DAC and amp is nice, as is its ability to be used as a preamp in a stereo set up later. Thoughts on that?
 
I'm intrigued by tube amps, though frankly, I don't know much about them. Maybe someone could fill me in. Please excuse my ignorance!
 
Thanks!
 
Walker

 

[wcarpenter]

Anybody?

 

[dongringo]

Hi wcarpenter,
 
Could you let us know what kind of music you will be listening to? That will help us help you choose headphones, which will be the most important part of your setup. The amp and dac will follow.
 
P.S. Welcome to Head-fi!

 

[Uncle Erik]

What do you want to know about tube amps?

A little general info - you usually have to pay a bit more for tubes than a good solid state amp. Tubes run off high voltage power supplies, which are more expensive to build than a 12V-24V supply that solid state runs on. You need bigger iron to develop the (roughly) 200V-400V that tubes need. Tubes also require a heater/filament supply, which also complicates things.

Most solid state is built on PCBs, but you'll find tubes on PCBs and also wired point-to-point. I prefer point-to-point since it is a more robust construction method and better suited to high voltage and high temperatures. If a tube amp has sockets on a PCB, each time you remove or put in tubes, it causes the board to flex. That can cause joints to come loose and solder to crack. If a PCB is damaged, it usually needs heavy surgery to repair. Point-to-point is much easier to repair and you don't usually run into problems in the first place. However, point-to-point requires more casework and labor, so it costs more.

Next, you'll find tube amps in both OTL (output transformerless) forms and also with output transformers. OTLs cost less (good output transformers start around $200 a pair in raw costs, and can cost a lot more) and since tubes have a relatively high output impedance, they're better suited to high impedance headphones. If you want low impedance drive, there are a couple of specialty OTLs with low output impedance, but they're not cheap. Otherwise, you will want output transformers to drive low impedance headphones. Like I said, output transformers will add significantly to the pricetag.

You'll also find a wide variety of tube types as well as different circuit topologies. That's an essay in itself, but in a nutshell, each tube and circuit type sounds different. You won't find a generic "tube sound" among all tube amps, while I find more similarity between solid state amps.

And there's a lot more, too. Feel free to ask questions and welcome to Head-Fi.

 

[wcarpenter]

Thanks guys! I guess my information was a little too broad. 

I listen to primarily rock/alternative and then some electronic and occasionally some rap. I'm by no means a basshead, but I do appreciate some rhobustness on the lower end of the spectrum. 
 
I've been looking at the AKG K 701/702 and then the Grado RS225 or RS325. Clearly, these have very different power requirements, but I'll buy the amp I need to for the headphones, so I'm most interested in getting a the best pair for me. I'd love to hear some thoughts on those, and other suggestions, too. 
 
Tubes sound very complicated. It may be that they don't make sense for my inaugural set-up from a complication and price standpoint. They're quite striking to look at though, so I couldn't help but be curious. 
 
Thanks!
Walker

 

[dongringo]

Since you listen mostly to rock and assuming you would like upfront, crunchy guitars, in your price range my suggestion would be:
 
$200 - Grado SR225
$104 - Little Dot 1+ hybrid amp
$299 - Musical Fidelity V-Dac
 
$603
 
I'd stay away from the SR325. Grados are bright enough as it is. The SR325 highs are just over the top. The reason I suggest the Little Dot 1+ is because it's perfect for low impedance phones and the tubes tame the Grado brightness just a tad without losing the 'bang your head' factor. The V-Dac is a great black box of a dac for the $. For your budget and taste in music this would be a nice little setup. Just some food for thought.

 

[wcarpenter]

Thanks for pointing me towards Little Dot! That looks like some great stuff, and the price is right. 
 
I noticed they make a DAC of their own. Any thoughts on that? It's slightly cheeper, and seems better designed from an input perspective. The V-Dac is odd in that it would have cables coming out of each end. I'm not sure how this would work on the tiny table in my tiny dorm room (I'm at boarding school.) The Little Dot DAC doesn't have this problem.
 
The Little Dot 1+ seems like an awesome little amp. Is there any benefit to going to a higher end model? I could certainly swing the extra $100 to buy the MkIII. The MkIII got a great review here on Head-fi. 
 
Do you think the Grados will have adequately powerful bass? I certainly like a little kick, if that makes any sense. 
Also, the AKG K701/702 seems to get a lot of really good press. Any thoughts on those? They would probably require a different amp, though, right?
 
Thanks,
Walker

 

[dongringo]

Well if you go for Grado the MKlll is not the right amp. It's designed for high impedance phones. I'd do more research on the AKGs though if I were you. I've read over and over again how they are bass light, bright, even harsh. I even auditioned them once at 32 Ohm headphone store and they seemed very bass light to me, didn't like them...they seemed lifeless for rock anyway. The SR225 has upfront mids and a nice tight bass, but aren't basshead phones by any means. One you might want to consider is Beyerdynamic DT880. My brother had the 600 ohm version paired with the LD MKlll and it sounded great. I also have those phones and pair them with a MAD Ear+ HD and V-Dac. This is my go-to combo. And as much as I love the Grado RS1i with the MAD, the DT880/600ohm + MAD + V-Dac sounds simply stunning. The bass is perfect imo, not over the top but not light either, the mids are upfront enough to do rock/metal better than any other phone I've heard other than Grado, and the soundstage is way out there. I remember that the LD MKlll drove them really well also. Hope that helps.
 
Edit: Grado + LD 1+ = Bam, in your face, rock out, bang your head against a wall goodness. Beyerdynamic + LD MKlll = Smooth, airy, warm lushness.

 

[dongringo]

Hey wcarpenter,
 
I edited the above post. I was mistaken about the AKG output impedance which is only 62 ohms. Thus the LD 1+ theoretically should drive them just fine. On the headroom website they recommend a dedicated amp to drive them properly though, so I'm not sure if the 1+ would be sufficient or not. Maybe someone else could chime in on this. I'm a Beyer and Grado guy myself. Don't know much about AKG, other than I didn't care for them with rock music. I kept going back to Grado during my store auditions then discovered Beyers later...took a chance on them and never looked back.
 
I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[wcarpenter]

I've been reading more about the AKGs, and it seems that they might not be the right headphones for me needs. I was very tempted by their excellent design and manageable price.
 
Grados certainly sound like a really good option. Are the SR225s comfortable at all? They don't look nearly as comfortable as the Beyerdynamics or the AKGs. Obviously, comfort has nothing to do with sound quality, but it's a factor none the less. Also, would splurging for something like the RS2i be worth doing or is the jump in quality negligible?
 
Is there are signifigant difference between the Beyer DT880 and the DT990?

Thanks,
Walker
 

 

[dongringo]

See pm about the Grados.

 
The DT990 have a bigger bass, but harsher highs. I've only auditioned them once though at a head-fi meet so don't have any other experience with them. The DT880 have a very balanced sound sig with a killer soundstage. The mids are forward just enough to do rock/metal really well, although they aren't at all fatiguing like Grados can be to some people. I have the 600 ohm version and they sound stunning with a dedicated tube amp as well as SS. The DT880 is the best choice imo if you listen to any ambient rock like Porcupine Tree, Sigur Ros, Jonsi, etc. Grados have a narrow soundstage, which is why they are considered 'fun' rock phones. The sound is more in your face as opposed to around your head.

 

[wcarpenter]

Sounds like of the Beyerdynamics, the DT880 is the pair to have. Would the LD MkIII be able to competently drive the 600ohm version?
 
Maybe when I'm back in Austin, I can find a audio store that stocks a good assortment of headphones. It seems like I really need to try the different options out. I seem to understand as much as I can learn through the internet. 
 
Still confident that the Little Dot is the best Amp option? Is there a compelling reason to go Solid State?
 
Thanks,
Walker

 

[dongringo]

Yeah, the MKlll drive the DT880/600 with no problem. They also sound great with my brother's SS Concerto, but it's not in your budget. All I can do is tell you what I've heard and know within your budget. I once asked all the same questions and through much research ended up with what I have. My brother started off with Grado/LD1+ and Beyer/MKlll because he had a lesser budget. He was happy with his combos while he had them. I had a chance to listen to them on several occasions and that's how I know about them, other than the extensive testimonies on this forum. As far as SS, I just haven't heard enough within your budget. It seems there is a several hundred dollar step up in most amps though so it's your budget that will win out in the end. You can always upgrade later like my brother did. He's happy with his Concerto. I'm happy with my Mapletree. But it in no way diminishes the value per dollar that Little Dot offers. If all I had was a DT880 and MKlll I would still be very happy. Grados are great. I love them to death for progressive metal especially. But I have tinnitus and can only listen to them for so long before they flair it up. I also like my Denon D5000, but mostly for electronic music. The mids are just too recessed for rock. There's just no crunch. The Beyers are my go to phones because they do almost everything well...a great all around can. And if you can only afford one pair of headphones, this should surely be taken into consideration. Happy hunting.

 
John

 

[gsilver]

The M-Stage and K701/2 is a really good combination. Well within your budget, too.

 

[wcarpenter]

Does the M Stage make the K701/2 any good for rock and things of the non classical variety?