[ear8dmg]

Just to add, Needles and I have been exchanging a few private messages.

To bring the rest of you up to date, elevation filter and MacroFX don't work (at least on the Prelude) once you go over 4.0 speakers.

I use the Prelude set to 4.0 mode to get the best results in most games.

I also mentioned that the SU-DH1 does not produce analogue quality as good as a Xonar and it distorts at higher volumes (I use mine at lowish volume with a separate amp to avoid it).

A more 'audiophile' solution would be using 2 soundcards to do the same thing, as ROBSCIX has mentioned.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just to add, Needles and I have been exchanging a few private messages. To bring the rest of you up to date, elevation filter and MacroFX don't work (at least on the Prelude) once you go over 4.0 speakers. I use the Prelude set to 4.0 mode to get the best results in most games. I also mentioned that the SU-DH1 does not produce analogue quality as good as a Xonar and it distorts at higher volumes (I use mine at lowish volume with a separate amp to avoid it). A more 'audiophile' solution would be using 2 soundcards to do the same thing, as ROBSCIX has mentioned.

Hey, can you elaborate a bit, what do you have set up?
When you mean MacroFX and Elevation doesn't work, in which situation are you talking about with the card using analog mode to speakers?
or the Prelude passing a encoded digtial dignal to another device?

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, can you elaborate a bit, what do you have set up? When you mean MacroFX and Elevation doesn't work, in which situation are you talking about with the card using analog mode to speakers? or the Prelude passing a encoded digtial dignal to another device?

I think we discussed this briefly a few months ago.

It's both the case for analogue speakers and passing encoded multichannel to a receiver. The 4.0 / 5.1 issue is the same whether you're using analogue speakers or DDL / DTSC to send a multichannel digital signal.

In gaming mode, with CMSS-3D on, these features work up to 4.0. With headphones, 2.0 to 4.0 channels you can set them to Auto, on or off. You will notice that if you set speakers to 5.1 or 7.1 these options are not there.

Please note that to get 4.0 and DDL / DTSC to work together I have to turn on the digital encoder (which automatically sets the output to 5.1) and then change the Windows speaker settings to 4.0 afterwards.

I found this out in an interview with a developer working on Frontlines: Fuel of War and have tested it in a number of games. With Dolby Headphone, elevation filter is certainly very evident in games that enable it. I'm less convinced with the nearfield localisation of MacroFX but it seemed to make a subtle but improved difference in Bioshock. Maybe that's because Dolby Headphones 'room' model isn't quite suitable to recreate the 4 channel HRTF that's needed? Maybe the HRTF just doesn't suit me?

The interview can be found here: Frontlines Warfare :: Community Website for Frontlines: Fuel of War

Quote:

5. Will Frontlines: Fuel of War take advantage of X-Fi technology? That answer is a bit complex so I had a programmer help me with it. The game supports OpenAL, which can take advantage of X-Fi features. Specifically, for altering your speaker set ups - 5.1, 4 speaker, 2 speaker, or headphones or whatever your hardware supports. Also, make sure that you are in Game mode. This is required to get EAX 4+, MacroFX, and ElevationFilter. For 2 or 4 speakers, make sure you are sitting in the sweet spot in order to get the correct HRTF effects. CMSS-3D, MacroFX, and ElevationFilter, is irrelevant for OpenAL games when you have 5.1 or more speakers. Unfortunately, this also means that you don't get MacroFX or ElevationFilter effects with 5.1 or more speakers. If you have 5.1 speakers, I'd suggest trying a OpenAL game in both 4.1 and 5.1 mode to see which you like best. You won't be able to get MacroFX and ElevationFilter with 5.1, but the sweet spot may be more forgiving due to lack of HRTF with 5.1 or more speakers. Also you still get reverb and other effects from software rendering. Hardware just gives you the multiple speaker output (more then stereo) and the other post processing effects that your hardware supports like EQ etc. Again, you have to experiment with what you like best.

One thing I'm not sure about is whether this only affects OpenAL games or if it affects DirectSound3D too. Doesn't Alchemy convert DS3D calls to OpenAL anyway, potentially meaning that most games are affected under Vista or W7?. I noticed a difference in elevation effects in Assassins Creed, and that's a DS3D game. You can effectively 'force' Elevation Filter and MacroFX by setting them as 'on' even for games that don't support it. Best not to force elevation filter for games with a top-down view as it usually sounds rather odd.

Having read up on MacroFX and Elevation filter, I understand that they were originally developed by one of the companies that Creative 'swallowed'. They were designed back in the day when 4.0 / 4.1 was the most common surround speaker configuration and it looks like Creative haven't updated them to take in more speakers.

Amusingly, it could mean that everyone that uses a 5.1 or 7.1 system with their X-Fi is effectively crippling the soundcard's gaming capabilities.

 

[ROBSCIX]

..or it could mean that when your in 5.1 mode they are set on and that is that.
Would be a good question for CL. Maybe I will drop them a PM and see if I can get any solid information. I am not holding my breath on that one.

 

[ear8dmg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /img/forum/go_quote.gif ..or it could mean that when your in 5.1 mode they are set on and that is that.

From listening tests, I'm certain that elevation filter isn't forced on. It would sound awful in RTS games with an overhead view for example.

With MacroFX it's difficult to say as it's a more subtle effect. I'm pretty sure that MacroFX was developed by Sensaura and Creative have added the technology, pretty much unchanged, to X-Fi.

Good luck with getting Creative to give you an answer on that

 

[ROBSCIX]

I didn't mean ON, I meant in auto mode. After more thought, I really am not sure.
It does seems strange though those options would vanish under surround mode.

Asking Creative was a idea, but I doubt you would get any useful information from them.

 

[ear8dmg]

3DsoundSurge: Sensaura - The Technology

^^^
A bit more info on the original Sensaura MacroFX Technology, which was designed to run as a 4 speaker (maximum) HTRF based system, rather than using volume panning.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Great, thanx for the info.

 

[Needles]

Tech talk, way out of my league! Acronyms, blowing my mind.

To update my end of things: I've settled on the Auzentech Home Theatre HD 7.1. I am extremely interested in the potential of the HDMI support. My PC currently functions as a half-assed HTPC, it would be nice for it to employ it's whole entire ass. Not to mention the ease of connectivity, entirely external over HDMI. Also, as the PCI-e card has no choice but to exist in extreme close quarters with my GFX card, I'm a little worried that I'll suffer from the buzzing sounds many have experienced placing the Forte next to a high end vid card under load. In my opinion, the peace of mind alone is worth the extra coin. And finally, though it may be "low profile", the Forte is actually longer than the HTHD by almost three quarters of an inch (according the Auzentech). Fitting the smaller card is already going to be tight. The more room my GFX card has to breath, the better.

Big time thanks to ROBSCIX and ear8dmg (and to all who submitted info and opinions)! Your expertise is much appreciated.

EDIT: One last concern: I notice, when the HTHD was first released, that there was some compatibility issues running it alongside Nvidia cards. ATI GFX cards were fine, but for some reason running HDMI out from an Nvidia card caused the Home Theatre 7.1 to pitch a fit. I can only assume this was somehow related to immature Auzentech drivers and that the issue has since been resolved (all threads and comments regarding this problem are months old). ROBSCIX tells me he runs the HTHD next to an Nvidia card with zero hassle ... so, am I safe in my assumption that this is a non-issue?

EDIT 2: Confirmation. Non-issue!

EDIT 3: For anyone interested, there's a $30 MIR on the HTHD until November 23rd. I usually don't get excited over mail-in rebates, but there you have it.