[catscratch]

This is easy. Go with what you like. If you like the HD650, then max it out, especially if you don't have to blow your budget to do it. When you like what you have, then don't be in a rush to get rid of it for something that's a complete unknown. Show up to a meet, listen to gear, and then you'll know where you want to take your rig for real. Until then, if you like what you have, enjoy it.

I did compare a balanced HD650 rig to some stats, and if you can put together a cheap balanced HD650 rig that sounds good, it will outperform most stuff you can have new at the same price. You could outdo it with vintage stats, hunting for bargains, and the like, but even then it's a hassle and you don't know if you'll like the sound signature to begin with. Lastly, any good 'stat setup is bound to be ultra revealing, and will need you to get a high-end source as well (as I'm finding out). The O2/717 combo can be found used for $2k or slightly over, but you better have a source that can match it, and that will cost at least as much if not more.

Nothing beats high-end 'stats in my book, but if you go that way you're looking at lots and lots of money.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's why I don't understand the near religious nature of 'balanced' discussions (admitting though Senns improve the most going balanced) around Head-Fi.

I don't understand it either. The improvement in going balanced with the HD650s was not earth shattering as suggested quite a bit.

I think it comes down to how much you like extended high frequencies vs a more rolled sound. I never could get the Senns to give me enough up top.

 

[twestby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Knight /img/forum/go_quote.gif You make me really really curious about Stax

Everyone should have (at least) one. -Tim

 

[-=Germania=-]

catscratch - very well said.

One point to add is that you will need a balanced source if you are really going to go balanced.
Another thing is that once your listening equipment gets better, faults in the music become glaring. Hearing the guys in the sound box having a conversation, lip smacking of the backup singers, papers being shuffled, or just poor mastering can make things unlistenable or just very distracting. My setup is not "high-end", but it already has me questioning going further up the ladder. You really should try some electrostatics out before you buy. The ones I have all tried have a very effortless quality about them that is decidedly different from any dynamic headphone I have heard.

 

[Cankin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif catscratch - very well said. One point to add is that you will need a balanced source if you are really going to go balanced. Another thing is that once your listening equipment gets better, faults in the music become glaring. Hearing the guys in the sound box having a conversation, lip smacking of the backup singers, papers being shuffled, or just poor mastering can make things unlistenable or just very distracting. My setup is not "high-end", but it already has me questioning going further up the ladder. You really should try some electrostatics out before you buy. The ones I have all tried have a very effortless quality about them that is decidedly different from any dynamic headphone I have heard.

This can be a plus to some

 

[-=Germania=-]

I can see why they would, but realistically.....

The sound engineers are usually not using as high of grade of stuff for the mastering as we are doing on the listening side. Yes, there are exceptions. However, that great Indie label is just not going to be able to keep up with the production value of the larger labels. The larger labels also have a lot of bad mastering to be found; they are not excluded.

Plus, while Novel at first...those kinds of details can be very distracting in the long run. It reminds me of the laugh track on sitcoms. Once you notice it, it is the most distracting/annoying thing ever and prevents you from simply enjoying the music.

Some people think my posts are like the laugh track...but I think they blocked me already anyway.

 

[catscratch]

You could always run a single-ended signal through a phase splitter and generate a balanced signal to run headphones in balanced mode. AFAIK this is what electrostatic amps with SE input do. I did this with the HD650 and HD600 off a push-pull speaker amp and it worked pretty well.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can see why they would, but realistically..... The sound engineers are usually not using as high of grade of stuff for the mastering as we are doing on the listening side. Yes, there are exceptions. However, that great Indie label is just not going to be able to keep up with the production value of the larger labels. The larger labels also have a lot of bad mastering to be found; they are not excluded. Plus, while Novel at first...those kinds of details can be very distracting in the long run. It reminds me of the laugh track on sitcoms. Once you notice it, it is the most distracting/annoying thing ever and prevents you from simply enjoying the music. Some people think my posts are like the laugh track...but I think they blocked me already anyway.

Many indie labels do a better job of recording and engineering than the majors. Great sounding records can be done on the cheap if the band is well rehearsed, knows the arrangements and has a recording plan prior to setting foot in the studio. I visited an indie studio/label a few weeks back that demoed some of the greatest recording I have heard. Also almost every audiophile label is an indie label.

The same detail that allows you to hear lip smacks or paper shuffling is the detail that allows you to hear things like the sound of the room, shimmer on cymbals, the sound of decay in the shell of a drum, tonal details of each instrument...

What is the exact advantage that going balanced end to end creates? I often hear if the source is not balanced well then your not hearing your rig at its best. This is not universally true. Many sources have balanced outputs that are dubiously conceived.
I can tell you that the two biggest increases in sound quality that I achieved from a balanced amp was lower noise floor due to rejection of noise from the transformers used to balance the line also greater control of the drivers as evidenced by faster leading edge attack, notes also stopped quicker leading to greater detail and more power.
Amps are balanced in a number of different ways and not every implementation is equal and some may offer sonic advantages

 

[Lil' Knight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif One point to add is that you will need a balanced source if you are really going to go balanced.

It's not a must.

 

[-=Germania=-]

Fully balanced end to end will likely have the best results.
Plus, you did say "Fully Balanced"

When I was talking about Indie labels, I was more speaking about what most people think of as indie labels. I really like Epitaph, but their mastering in many cases could use some work. Rock-On!

 

[philodox]

Well, you already have the HD650's and like them. You could consider that new balanced amp from little dot and plan on upgrading your source in the future. Looks like you have a EMU 0404 and that should get you started.

Also, don't buy this 'stats are always better than dynamics' bull... the Stax Mafia is strong here.

 

[krmathis]

As always when it comes to audio, only trust your own ears/eyes.
The opinion of other people should only be taken as guidelines, as out taste, preference, .. varies a lot.
Enjoy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, don't buy this 'stats are always better than dynamics' bull... the Stax Mafia is strong here.

There are no Stax Mafia...

 

[Lil' Knight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, you already have the HD650's and like them. You could consider that new balanced amp from little dot and plan on upgrading your source in the future. Looks like you have a EMU 0404 and that should get you started. Also, don't buy this 'stats are always better than dynamics' bull... the Stax Mafia is strong here.

Woo-hoo! I wish I didn't see your post

$800 has just gone to David @ LD.

 

[-=Germania=-]

You must let us know what that tube amp sounds like.

I am very curious and if it ends up being very good - could be a very nice little balanced setup!

 

[Lil' Knight]

Got the confirmation that it needs 2 weeks to build and ship. I'm looking forward to hearing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Germania=- /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... a very nice little balanced setup!

Not really little at all