[genefruit]

By Toad, do you mean, I guess it was, a song that featured drummer Ginger Baker from Cream? I honestly don’t know, this is just what I am guessing from a couple of Google searches.

In the pop genre, Ringo Starr is a great example of a drummer who was (is?) exceptionally musical even if he couldn’t play lights out like some other folks, IMHO.

going with the band "Theory Of A Deadman"

 

[gregorio]

As other posters have said, a better DAC will help.

NO, it won’t help at all!

Cymbal and acoustic stringed instrument attacks are a couple places where better DACs really pull their weight and make things sound more like they do in the space.

“Better DACs” than what? There are a tiny number of expensive audiophile DACs, such as some of the NOS or tube DACs, that remove enough HF or add enough distortion to slightly audibly degrade transients but pretty much all the rest of the cheaper, not deliberately broken/lower fidelity DACs reproduce transients accurately.

Just repeating marketing BS, without supporting reliable evidence is, as of course you should know by now, not acceptable in this subforum! There is a wealth of reliable/objective evidence going back many years from many sources that even cheap DACs have an audibly flat HF response and transient reproduction.

well, thats your opinion

No, it’s not. Objective facts/measurements are not an “opinion”.

G

 

[Ghoostknight]

No, it’s not. Objective facts/measurements are not an “opinion”.

well than read the phase measurements of reconstruction filters and question the audibility

 

[bigshot]

Most boring drum solo?: TOAD

You haven't heard the drum solo that took up an entire album side of an ELP album. Palmer was a good drummer but not 20 minutes good!

Some opinions are supported by facts and supporting arguments, and some are just made up out of thin air. All opinions are not equal.

 

[gregorio]

well than read the phase measurements of reconstruction filters

I have read the phase measurements of reconstruction filters and measured several myself. Linear phase filters by definition have no impact on phase and minimum phase filters obviously have minimal effect and:

and question the audibility

What question of audibility? Apart from the rare and deliberately faulty very early roll-off filters, reconstruction filters are not audible and particularly in terms of phase. So there is no question of audibility and unless you can provide reliable evidence to the contrary, then you’re just repeating marketing BS! Same with cables, again provided they’re not broken or the correct gauge/type for the job.

G

 

[gregorio]

Buddy Rich is definitely number 2.

We can’t say “definitely”. Comparing different drummers from different eras/generations, across different genres is problematic at best, not to mention that musical and even technical ability are not precisely defined.

Technically Buddy Rich was unmatched, musically he was one of the very best, he set the benchmark and would likely just about come out top if a poll were taken amongst the greatest drummers themselves. However, although he epitomised drumming, he didn’t really define or redefine it in the way that say Krupa did or experiment radically and move the art forward in the way that say Baker, Bozzio or Moon did.

In the pop genre, Ringo Starr is a great example of a drummer who was (is?) exceptionally musical even if he couldn’t play lights out like some other folks, IMHO.

Starr never really got the recognition he deserved within the drumming community IMHO, mainly because he just didn’t have the technical ability of peers like Baker or Moon or anywhere near someone like Rich but he was arguably the most influential drummer of all time. He effectively wrote the book on pop drumming and his style, though rudimentary, was perfect for the type of music the Beatles were creating.

All the above is just opinion of course and it’s been hotly debated within the drumming community for decades.

G

 

[bigshot]

He's number 2 on my list. Who's on yours? It looks like we've got the same names on our lists, just the order might be different.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

Hi all,

I have searched through related posts, but there doesn't seem to be a post about this topic directly. My question is simple: Why do cymbals sound so bad, like pin pricks, on most audio gear, particularly iems?

Am I just unlucky? Am I overly sensitive to cymbals?

Just listen to these two tracks, which I find to be key in describing what I mean:

The Eagles - New Kid in Town

and

Radiohead - Jigsaws Falling into Place

The above two songs are created by renowned artists, and produced professionally no doubt. Yet, even through my Tia Trio, among other less expensive IEMs that I own/have owned (sold because of this issue in the first place, mind you!), I can't get a proper cymbal reproduction.

If I were to engage my 'physics' mind, I would reason that a proper cymbal should have these traits, in order:

1. Stick impact
2. The main tone or body of the cymbal
3. A beautiful shimmer, or "shhhh" sound as the cymbals decay

Most IEMs cannot do this, and it's very frustrating. Even my Tia Trio, which is touted to have decent treble via the Tia driver, is honestly quite bad, and indeed sounds like pin pricks. My only headphone, the HD600, from a purely tonal perspective, is not bad at reproducing cymbals, in that it's not sharp like IEMs, but it is still rough around the edges on the notes.

Sorry if I am getting emotional, but it is honestly very frustrating. Am I asking for too much? Do I need high end gear, like a Susvara, to properly hear cymbals, despite cymbals being a basic tone in almost all music?

I have a feeling that many people have similar concerns, but never bothered to describe it. This is my intention in creating this post. I think cymbals are just as important, if not moreso, than bass and midrange, because there is an aspect of fatigue involved, and just the fact that cymbals are so prominent in music

Thanks!

And obviously you don't want to listen to the 10 morons here who say that digital audio peaked in 1979 and that every DAC sounds the same, but instead to the 10 million professionals like this guy and informed consumers who make up the real world.

 

[gregorio]

He's number 2 on my list.

Fine but then that’s your personal list, not a definitive list and is not “definitely number 2” for anyone else.

Who's on yours?

It’s a long list, Bill Bruford, Neil Peart, Peter Erskine, Manu Katche, Chambers, Bellson, Hernandez, Cobham, Gadd, Blaine, the ones I’ve already mentioned and quite a few others. There have been quite a few great drummers over the last 60 years or so, some regarded as the best for a while within a style/musical period and some as legends, transcending their genre/period. My personal list has no definite order and if it did, it could/would be easy to challenge/refute.

G

 

[gregorio]

And obviously you don't want to listen to the 10 morons here who say that digital audio peaked in 1979

No one here has said that, so just more utter BS you’ve simply made-up.

but instead to the 10 million professionals like this guy …

A video sponsored by Chord Electronics comes to the surprise, objective conclusion that the Chord Dave sounds better than other DACs. There really is a sucker born every minute! Despite how long you’ve been posting here, you haven’t even worked out that this is the Sound Science forum, not the Sound Suckers forum.

Accused of just repeating marketing BS and asked for reliable/objective evidence, your best effort is to post a marketing video, impressive. Instead of listening to us here, he should listen to the “morons” who don’t know the difference between marketing and reliable evidence. Well done and thanks for proving my point!

G

 

[FunkyBassMan]

reliable evidence.

G

Lol, you and your fellow "all DACs sound the same" cultists have never once presented reliable evidence that all DACs sound the same, something almost the entire world disagrees with you on.

You just blather, as "scientific" as astrologers.

 

[gregorio]

Lol, you and your fellow "all DACs sound the same" cultists have never once presented reliable evidence that all DACs sound the same

What me and my fellows state “all DACs sound the same”? Again, thanks for EXACTLY proving my point! Accused of making up utter BS and quoting marketing as fact, your response is to post a marketing video and now make-up even more utter BS. I couldn’t have written a better script, now that really is LOL!

And just for the record, for those suckers who don’t know the difference between science and marketing or even apparently what science is, science cannot prove a negative. However, we’ve posted objective facts or measurements demonstrating no audible difference between the vast majority of consumer DACs numerous times. You’re making the claim they sound different, you provide the reliable evidence to support it. Of course you can’t, so what you’ll do is yet again; make-up utter BS, quote marketing as fact, present nothing at all except insults or just run away, until you decide to troll the exact same BS in another thread. Other “morons” have been doing that for decades, it’s not new, it’s certainly not clever and it doesn’t prove anything except that they are morons/trolls!

G

 

[FunkyBassMan]

science cannot prove a negative.

G

Exactly. So stop claiming things science can't prove!

 

[gregorio]

Exactly. So stop claiming things science can't prove!

Firstly, what “things”? The BS claim you’ve made up and FALSELY ascribed to me or my actual claim which is supported by a great deal of published objective measurements?

Secondly, science could prove your claim is true however, so where’s the reliable evidence/objective measurements for your claim? Which brings us back to your typical response options!

G

 

[FunkyBassMan]

Do all DACs sound the same or don't they?