[bigshot]

 

[Ryokan]

Do artists tend to use high hats as traditional cymbals would be too distracting?

 

[gregorio]

Do artists tend to use high hats as traditional cymbals would be too distracting?

Not quite sure what you mean? Do you mean played “open”, hit quite hard and sporadically and left to ring, say like splash cymbals?

If that’s the question then not really because the point of hi-hats is that you can play relatively fast patterns on them, which you can’t as easily with cymbals because the overlapping decay makes it more of a wash than a discernible pattern. Having said this, a feature of many pieces in the metal genre is just that, open hi-hats played every beat, to produce somewhat of a “wash” of cymbal sound during certain sections (the chorus most commonly).

There really aren’t any absolute rules, except that hi-hats can be more variable (open, closed, half-open, open then closed or vice versa and also operated solely by the pedal) and therefore more useful for musical patterns/loops.

G

 

[Ryokan]

If that’s the question then not really because the point of hi-hats is that you can play relatively fast patterns on them, which you can’t as easily with cymbals because the overlapping decay makes it more of a wash than a discernible pattern.

This is what I meant sir.

 

[gregorio]

- my new Aune X8 dac definitely resolves highs better than my previous topping d10

Why, was the Topping broken? DACs are equally resolving throughout the audible freq range, unless they’re broken.

- reasonable made sommercable XLR`s compared to premade cheapo cordal ones also made a good jump in highs, tho the effect were more of smoothing out high sounds.

Again, cables make no difference at all either, unless they’re broken or completely the wrong gauge for the job.

also high frequency distortion sounded really unpleasent ("earpiercing") before on flat speakers

If the speakers had high frequency distortion then they were not flat. It’s one or the other, not both!

G

 

[Steve999]

Here’s another from Max Roach’s M’boom album (just getting familiar with it!) where, it sounds to me, as though you could listen for the different types of hi hats and cymbal work and a good variety of sounds. It’s well recorded imho and goes by slowly so you can hear the long decay and different timbre of cymbals vs. a variety of sounds and effects from the hi hats. It sounds to be in 7/8 time (somewhat unusual) for anyone who cares about that sort of thing.

 

[gregorio]

Here’s an example of arguably the greatest drumkit player of all time, Buddy Rich. Go to 1:24 for an example of the sort of thing that can be done with hi-hats.


G

 

[Ryokan]

Here’s an example of arguably the greatest drumkit player of all time, Buddy Rich. Go to 1:24 for an example of the sort of thing that can be done with hi-hats.


G

Philthy Animal Taylor must be a close second

 

[Steve999]

Philthy Animal Taylor must be a close second

How do you tell if the stage is level?

The drummer is drooling from both sides of his mouth.

 

[bigshot]

Buddy Rich is definitely number 2. This is one of the most amazing live performances I've ever heard,



No comment on that Motorhead guy. He seems to embody what Castle was talking about. It's like he's furiously playing the typewriter. The best drummer for animal energy was Keith Moon. He was a madman and could push the whole band further than they thought they could possibly go.

And of course Gene Krupa at the 1938 Benny Goodman Carnegie Hall concert. He felt the gig going South and dug in all by himself to raise the whole concert to a stratospheric level. You can hear the moment where Krupa says "To hell with it." and jumps off the cliff and the whole band follows.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

Hi all,

I have searched through related posts, but there doesn't seem to be a post about this topic directly. My question is simple: Why do cymbals sound so bad, like pin pricks, on most audio gear, particularly iems?

Am I just unlucky? Am I overly sensitive to cymbals?

Just listen to these two tracks, which I find to be key in describing what I mean:

The Eagles - New Kid in Town

and

Radiohead - Jigsaws Falling into Place

The above two songs are created by renowned artists, and produced professionally no doubt. Yet, even through my Tia Trio, among other less expensive IEMs that I own/have owned (sold because of this issue in the first place, mind you!), I can't get a proper cymbal reproduction.

If I were to engage my 'physics' mind, I would reason that a proper cymbal should have these traits, in order:

1. Stick impact
2. The main tone or body of the cymbal
3. A beautiful shimmer, or "shhhh" sound as the cymbals decay

Most IEMs cannot do this, and it's very frustrating. Even my Tia Trio, which is touted to have decent treble via the Tia driver, is honestly quite bad, and indeed sounds like pin pricks. My only headphone, the HD600, from a purely tonal perspective, is not bad at reproducing cymbals, in that it's not sharp like IEMs, but it is still rough around the edges on the notes.

Sorry if I am getting emotional, but it is honestly very frustrating. Am I asking for too much? Do I need high end gear, like a Susvara, to properly hear cymbals, despite cymbals being a basic tone in almost all music?

I have a feeling that many people have similar concerns, but never bothered to describe it. This is my intention in creating this post. I think cymbals are just as important, if not moreso, than bass and midrange, because there is an aspect of fatigue involved, and just the fact that cymbals are so prominent in music

Thanks!

As other posters have said, a better DAC will help. Cymbal and acoustic stringed instrument attacks are a couple places where better DACs really pull their weight and make things sound more like they do in the space.

That said, on the two tracks, the cymbals in the hi-hat are mixed back really low. If you want to know the production reason why that is, PM me. But mixed so low you won't really hear their full frequency range well on any DAC/headphones.

 

[Steve999]

Well, to be honest, when I used to go to night clubs a lot, the drum solo was often a real good time for a bathroom break.

One drummer who I saw live and was, for my taste, musical enough to keep me in my seat, was Louis Hayes, FWIW. There’s some interesting cymbal and hi-hat (at 3:07) work in here for anyone interested. . Who is technically the best and who I actually like to listen to can be very different conversations for me.

 

[Ryokan]

Most boring drum solo?: TOAD

 

[Steve999]

Most boring drum solo?: TOAD

By Toad, do you mean, I guess it was, a song that featured drummer Ginger Baker from Cream? I honestly don’t know, this is just what I am guessing from a couple of Google searches.

In the pop genre, Ringo Starr is a great example of a drummer who was (is?) exceptionally musical even if he couldn’t play lights out like some other folks, IMHO.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Why, was the Topping broken? DACs are equally resolving throughout the audible freq range, unless they’re broken.

Again, cables make no difference at all either, unless they’re broken or completely the wrong gauge for the job.

well, thats your opinion

If the speakers had high frequency distortion then they were not flat. It’s one or the other, not both!

im talking about distortion inside songs