[tstarn06]

Another good point. No hurry here, since I am not unhappy,on balance, with the W3s.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif W3 is much more sparkly than TFPro. TFPro sounds much closer to UM3X. W3 is much more dynamic than both. Bigger bass, spikier treble but it comes with some unwanted characteristics I described above. It's a trade-off.

Frequency response is not what determines dynamics. Dynamics is the variation between the loudest and quietest sounds in a recording. Triple.fi is just about as dynamic as W3 IMO, maybe even more so. The most dynamic IEM I have heard so far is probably Shure SE530.

 

[HONEYBOY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah...I knew it would happen UM3X will certainly be seen as boring to some. W3 is more "wow" and exciting but UM3X is undisputably smoother and more accurate. Different strokes for different folks. In my case I found W3 bass hump too distracting and the treble was fatiguing on my ears. UM3X fixed both of those things. I listen to different types of jazz, acoustic, vocal and jazz fusion.

You Know Spyro I'll have to agree with you there. After some dedicated listening I preferred the UM3X over the W3.To my ears it's offers greater accuracy; more transparency and doesn't have the flaw of the W3 which I wished I hadn't read about (namely the mid bass hump).

I however choose the IE8 over the UM3X. I suppose Cool Torpedo nailed when he said :"Yep, that's the point. Sometimes perfect frequency balance, awesome resolution, huge stage and many of those audiophile "virtues" mean nothing if a pair of phones can't manage to get you involved with the music."

 

[lisztian420]

I think it certainly depends on where you are coming from: ) I love the UM3X as I can easily focus on any instrument being play in a small jazz band and pick up the nuances on the intricate beats on the drum, the bass slap, the timber of the guitar etc. I think W3 is more fun and present the big picture in a more entertaining way with the boom boom boom, but UM3X is much better when you really want to know what each musician is doing with their instruments: )

 

[ilney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by decay /img/forum/go_quote.gif soozieq should definitely have more time to adjust to the more natural signature of UM3X before any fair judgment can be made, not to mention the trying new tips, positions, mojos, etc. a new IEM demands, albeit it has similar size and casing compared to the UM2. And if it's any indication, the high praises for natural sound ES3X plays should give one "hope".

Nah, it can't be help. Reading her inquiries about the UM3X, I knew this would happen. That's why I asked her to review the UM3X + X1000 combo before returning the latter

 

[kloan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisztian420 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it certainly depends on where you are coming from: ) I love the UM3X as I can easily focus on any instrument being play in a small jazz band and pick up the nuances on the intricate beats on the drum, the bass slap, the timber of the guitar etc. I think W3 is more fun and present the big picture in a more entertaining way with the boom boom boom, but UM3X is much better when you really want to know what each musician is doing with their instruments: )

This is exactly why I think I may have more fun with the W3... simply because I just like to put music on and let it do it's thing without any particular sound (or lack of) stick out and annoy/distract me. I'm not an analytical listener by any means, considering I listen to downtempo/eletronica/dnb/trip hop/ and some rock stuff like Mars Volta, Radiohead, Band of Horses, and the occasional older rock like Pink Floyd and King Crimson.

I think for jazz, classical, these are ideal earphones.. I also feel they really do depend on the recording, bitrate, production level as well. If a recording just isn't mastered very well, you're going to hear it instantly with these things. I think that is where I'm getting distracted the most, since not all of my music is of the highest quality.

One thing's for sure, it's making me dig deeper into different music genres (I borrowed some new CDs from my uncle who has a huge collection of music) and I'm going to rip everything in lossless, to give these a real thorough comparison to the W3 when I get them.

Also getting a bunch more tips to try out as well.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kloan /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is exactly why I think I may have more fun with the W3... simply because I just like to put music on and let it do it's thing without any particular sound (or lack of) stick out and annoy/distract me. I'm not an analytical listener by any means, considering I listen to downtempo/eletronica/dnb/trip hop/ and some rock stuff like Mars Volta, Radiohead, Band of Horses, and the occasional older rock like Pink Floyd and King Crimson.

kloan, we have very similar musical tastes, so your comments are resonating with me quite a bit. I was very much leaning towards the UM3X, but what you're saying makes a lot of sense.

As much as I'd like to believe in my own audiophile-purism, the reality is that it's quite possible that I would enjoy the coloration that the W3 offers compared to the more 'neutral' UM3X.

Another reviewer in the UM3X thread was saying how he preferred Tool and Crimson with the UM3X, which had caused me to figure it must simply be the superior IEM, regardless of sound signature.

That, and the fact that the ES3X has been so well received, and the UM3X being said to share a similar sound signature to it's custom older sibling, had pulled me more in the direction of the UM3X.

I have owned UM2's, and am sure that I could find a good fit, too, which is another factor...

AHhhhhhhh!

 

[kloan]

Well I had a listen to Tool, and it sounded relatively flat. The mids were slightly forward, guitars being the main focus, while drums, bass, vocals, almost took a back seat. Because the highs aren't quite as crisp as say the Triple.Fi, I find that vocals aren't quite as lush with these, they seem to lack a tiny bit of edge, or clarity/texture, whatever you want to call it, they just don't seem quite as clear.

Seems to me because they don't colour the sound, anything that was engineered to be flat is going to sound flat, and to me that just sounds boring! There is a fine line between having earphones that are just too much on the ears (IE8 IMO), and something that perks up recordings that would normally not be very lively (more oomph in the bass, livelier highs).

I think the reality is there is no single IEM (or headphone) that can sound great with any and all music you play through it. Ideally, it'd be great.. but I don't think it's possible. So there are always going to be compromises.

If the W3 end up being fatiguing for me, then I'll stick with the UM3X simply because they are not, and I can learn to live with a little less bass in some music, and slightly forward mids in others, while some music will just sound great.

 

[kaushama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think maybe I'm one of the only UM3X/W3 owners who's not enjoying the UM3X as much the W3. That's not to say I don't like the UM3X, I do. There's nothing I can actually pinpoint as 'wrong' about them, I'm just not getting the same fun factor from them that I do with the W3. But I'm going to carry on listening for a week or two in the hope that they might grow on me. Sometimes it takes me longer than normal to adjust to a different sound signature. Spyro - I loved the TF10 to bits. But the UM3X don't really sound similar to me. Different ears and all that

I agree! They are more balanced and not fun sounding as W3. So westone is quite correctly recommend it for musicians and W3 for personel listening.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kloan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I had a listen to Tool, and it sounded relatively flat. The mids were slightly forward, guitars being the main focus, while drums, bass, vocals, almost took a back seat. Because the highs aren't quite as crisp as say the Triple.Fi, I find that vocals aren't quite as lush with these, they seem to lack a tiny bit of edge, or clarity/texture, whatever you want to call it, they just don't seem quite as clear. Seems to me because they don't colour the sound, anything that was engineered to be flat is going to sound flat, and to me that just sounds boring! There is a fine line between having earphones that are just too much on the ears (IE8 IMO), and something that perks up recordings that would normally not be very lively (more oomph in the bass, livelier highs). I think the reality is there is no single IEM (or headphone) that can sound great with any and all music you play through it. Ideally, it'd be great.. but I don't think it's possible. So there are always going to be compromises. If the W3 end up being fatiguing for me, then I'll stick with the UM3X simply because they are not, and I can learn to live with a little less bass in some music, and slightly forward mids in others, while some music will just sound great.

I know there have been some discussions about the headphone counterparts to a lot of these IEM's, and what you're saying seems to remind me of a lot of the Grado vs. Sennheiser debates.

It's not necessarily about which headphone/IEM is "better", but rather which better suits your musical preferences. The W3's in this analogy definitely seem like they represent the Grado end of the spectrum.

The IEM comparison might be a little trickier than the headphone one, because the forward mids of the UM3X could do very well with some rock, and certainly with a lot of vocal/acoustic stuff as well. But in terms of your Mars Volta's, etc... it's easy for me to imagine the W3's being more involving.

 

[uberburger101]

Might definitely happen after the FOTM wears off.

 

[music_4321]

As much as I enjoyed my W3's - and I really did enjoy them - now having the UM3X's I liken the W3's to kind of using the Loudness EQ pre-set, where you immediately get that WOW! factor - OH YEAH!!, but for me that would mean turning the volume down and getting fatigue relatively soon, specially when listening to Crimson ('73-'74 & 2000-2003), Eno's Nerve Net, Tool's Lateralus & Aenima, Steven Wilson's Insurgentes (2009) or Radiohead's OK Computer, Amnesiac, or Kid A.

With the UM3X's I can play this type of music louder, get a better sense of balance, clarity, instrument separation AND FUN, yes FUN. I don't find the sound 'clinical', 'analytical' or whatever people like to call it. I find the UM3X's musical, and just right sounding.

Perhaps the loudness EQ preset example isn't so accurate after all, but I think it's close enough. Years ago I used to enjoy more 'bloated' bass and 'sparkly' highs and tended to prefer less prominent mids. In the last 15 years or so I've learned to appreciate what I now regard as a more realistic sound which I now prefer and find a hell of a lot of fun.

We mustn't forget we DO hear things differently, have different sound preferences, different ear and ear canal shapes, AND use different tips, making it very hard to actually be referring to the same things - some 15 years ago I'd have gone for the W3's easily. Now the UM3X to me wins hands down. And again let me be clear - I get PLENTY of bass impact/ punch from many recordings with the UM3X. Some of the cellos, double basses, electric basses and other bass sounding instruments on many recordings are NOT bass light AT ALL. And it is precisely in those recordings where I found the W3's fatiguing at certain volumes after a relatively short period of time (30mins?).

Please don't take offence at my assertion that the W3's are probably aimed more at the general (younger, iPod generation) public. The 'neutrality' I find in the UM3X is, I repeat, a lot of fun to these ears. I simply couldn't put them down when I got them on Friday, not because I was analysing all details - which I was in a way - but mostly because of the ENJOYMENT I was getting. And if you add that only seconds, yes ONLY seconds, after putting them on I could not feel them AT ALL in my ears - that's how very light and comfortable they are.

To these ears this certainly isn't a FOTM thing.

If the UM3X's are aimed more specifically at musicians, does that necessarily have to make them cold, analytical, clinical, and boring? I don't think so, and I think that's why they are a terrific set of IEM's.

 

[SOUNDinterpreter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As much as I enjoyed my W3's - and I really did enjoy them - now having the UM3X's I liken the W3's to kind of using the Loudness EQ pre-set, where you immediately get that WOW! factor - OH YEAH!!, but for me that would mean turning the volume down and getting fatigue relatively soon, specially when listening to Crimson ('73-'74 & 2000-2003), Eno's Nerve Net, Tool's Lateralus & Aenima, Steven Wilson's Insurgentes (2009) or Radiohead's OK Computer, Amnesiac, or Kid A. With the UM3X's I can play this type of music louder, get a better sense of balance, clarity, instrument separation AND FUN, yes FUN. I don't find the sound 'clinical', 'analytical' or whatever people like to call it. I find the UM3X's musical, and just right sounding. Perhaps the loudness EQ preset example isn't so accurate after all, but I think it's close enough. Years ago I used to enjoy more 'bloated' bass and 'sparkly' highs and tended to prefer less prominent mids. In the last 15 years or so I've learned to appreciate what I now regard as a more realistic sound which I now prefer and find a hell of a lot of fun. We mustn't forget we DO hear things differently, have different sound preferences, different ear and ear canal shapes, AND use different tips, making it very hard to actually be referring to the same things - some 15 years ago I'd have gone for the W3's easily. Now the UM3X to me wins hands down. And again let me be clear - I get PLENTY of bass impact/ punch from many recordings with the UM3X. Some of the cellos, double basses, electric basses and other bass sounding instruments on many recordings are NOT bass light AT ALL. And it is precisely in those recordings where I found the W3's fatiguing at certain volumes after a relatively short period of time (30mins?). Please don't take offence at my assertion that the W3's are probably aimed more at the general (younger, iPod generation) public. The 'neutrality' I find in the UM3X is, I repeat, a lot of fun to these ears. I simply couldn't put them down when I got them on Friday, not because I was analysing all details - which I was in a way - but mostly because of the ENJOYMENT I was getting. And if you add that only seconds, yes ONLY seconds, after putting them on I could not feel them AT ALL in my ears - that's how very light and comfortable they are. To these ears this certainly isn't a FOTM thing. If the UM3X's are aimed more specifically at musicians, does that necessarily have to make them cold, analytical, clinical, and boring? I don't think so, and I think that's why they are a terrific set of IEM's.

thanks music_4321

i think these are the iem's i am looking for. i used to be part of the "general public" as you speak. i enjoyed great dynamics - deep heavy bass and sparkly highs. i can see why most people would prefer this kind of sound signature. this is the type of sound i got using my sony a728 with eq and my um2. ever since i got my sansa clip (no eq) and phonak audeo pfe's, i have grown to appreciate and love a more neutral sound signature and it's something i now prefer. to me, listening to radiohead's in rainbows with the clip/pfe combo, everything sounds more clear, realistic, natural and there is definitely less fatigue and all of that makes music more enjoyable imo. listening to the same album with my a728/um2 combo, certain songs just don't sound "right" to me and it has made me consider selling my um2's. because i can't afford the es3x at the moment, i am hoping that the um3x are the "neutral" 3-driver iem's i am looking for.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kloan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a similar experience with you soozieq, I find the UM3X and Triple.Fi to be two different beasts. I'd say overall they remind me of the E500 if anything. One thing I'm curious about, since you have the W3 and had the Triple.Fi, did you at any point with any music find the treble with the Triple.Fi too sharp or peaky? Not quite sibilant, but almost? If what Spyro says is true about the W3 having peakier treble than Triple.Fi, I won't like the W3 at all. And yes, with some music, the mids are definitely forward with the UM3X.. there's no doubt in my mind. Some of my music even sounds lo-fi.

some of your music probably IS lo-fi; not all electronic music has great dynamic range and subtlety. that doesnt means its not good music; just maybe not that suited to highly revealing equipment, i'll know very shortly, but going from impressions of those I have come to know around here the UM3X sounds like its very unforgiving. I found the TF10 to be peaky and fatiguing just like you and I didnt have the same problem with W3, so you might be OK

 

[Ubijza]

Regarding "fatigue" of phones- its seems like a catch22 situation. Ety ER4 have fantastic energy/high freq extension which means they are "fatiguing"... Shure 530 are "not fatiguing" but do not have high freq extension energy... It's like trying to have a cake and eat it! And even without earphones- try listening to triangles and high-hats being hit for more than an hour- of course your ears will be "fatigued".

I like my music to have high frequencies- that is where overtones reside, thats where acoustic instruments show a lot of their magic.

Once I have sorted out the configuration of W3+universal sleeves relative to my ear (it took me 2 weeks, but I got there eventually)- I am now just revelling in gorgeous ambience, texture and control across entire spectrum (listening to Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances right now through W3) . (Yes, even my beloved piano sounds great now- no longer superwarm, but crisp with lovely decay!)Trumpets/Triangles and co sound beautiful- no harshness at all, but certainly moving in such a way that ... is emotionally draining, fatiguing ... but in just the same way as it would be fatiguing sitting next to the orchestra for 3 hours- FATIGUING IN A GREAT WAY!!!