From Classical to Metal
Jul 26, 2007 at 6:29 PM Post #16 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the majority of the popular culture musicians have some degree in musical education.


I honestly don't know the answer to that, at least in the metal scene. I would assume the artists aren't just garage bands gone pro. But I also wouldn't believe that every metal artist went to a place like Berkley College of Music.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 6:34 PM Post #17 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Are you sure that's what metal is about? I find more soul in some metal artists than some, even professional, classical musicians. Both are very talented.


When I try to explain to people about my love for metal music, I always try to refererence the ability of the metal artist to classical and other musicians.

When I listen to metal, the talent of the guitar/bass/drums amazes me. The technical skills required to play what I hear is mesmerizing. yet many people who don't like metal can't get past distortion and heaviness. And I will admit many of the metal artists singing abilities are a little suspect. For instance, when my wife hears a growling voice, she can't hear the rest of the music because the voice grates her. Yet she still notices the talent level of the metal I listen to.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 6:39 PM Post #18 of 68
But I think it's a little different in the classical scene. Popular music is about humoring the general audience. In classical music, it's about technicality, musical scholarliness and most importantly, and original and sound interpretation of the music.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 7:25 PM Post #19 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted /img/forum/go_quote.gif
But I think it's a little different in the classical scene. Popular music is about humoring the general audience. In classical music, it's about technicality, musical scholarliness and most importantly, and original and sound interpretation of the music.


I like that - humoring the general audience.

It's hard to tell what the metal artist is trying to convey to the audience. If you see bands like Dimmu Borgir (whom I think are awersome) and Immortal, they dress up and paint their faces like Kiss. I generally look right through that and just listgen to the music. Other metal bands look "normal" (unless you consider long hair on ment not normal) - Opeth my favorite band comes to mind.

When I read interviews with the metal bands, for the most part they find technical prowess and interpretation of their music most important. I suppose they don't even think of mussical scholarliness, but to me, I close my eyes and listen to the music. So whether it's black leather and painted faces or tuxedos as whatever the genre's scene dictates visually, it's still the music that's important.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 7:55 PM Post #20 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Personally, I can't see why others do it. So-called "classical" music has a totally different aesthetic value. One favors beauty, balance, proportion, harmony. The other seems to value loudness, vulgarity, coarseness, ugliness. Classical demands high technical skills and years of training to master an instrument. Metal seems to require only the basic skills, a loud amplifier, and the ability to shout rather than sing. Can you tell I loathe metal?
So why the transition? For many musicians, they play to make a living. And let's face it, there's more money in other arenas than classical in today's American "culture". I know many players who take gigs playing country western. A trained violinist can outplay most fiddlers any day. Some do it because they find it fun. This is especially true of drummers. In music written too much before 1900, percussionists don't have a lot to do in symphony concerts, so rock/pop/jazz/metal/country provide an outlet.
Personally, I could never do it. I value my hearing too much to play in any group that requires electonic amplification to be heard. And I have never figured out how any can really enjoy metal. It is so ugly and barbaric. Why not bring some beauty into the world?



wow...

you're an idiot.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 7:57 PM Post #21 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Personally, I can't see why others do it. So-called "classical" music has a totally different aesthetic value. One favors beauty, balance, proportion, harmony. The other seems to value loudness, vulgarity, coarseness, ugliness. Classical demands high technical skills and years of training to master an instrument. Metal seems to require only the basic skills, a loud amplifier, and the ability to shout rather than sing. Can you tell I loathe metal?
So why the transition? For many musicians, they play to make a living. And let's face it, there's more money in other arenas than classical in today's American "culture". I know many players who take gigs playing country western. A trained violinist can outplay most fiddlers any day. Some do it because they find it fun. This is especially true of drummers. In music written too much before 1900, percussionists don't have a lot to do in symphony concerts, so rock/pop/jazz/metal/country provide an outlet.
Personally, I could never do it. I value my hearing too much to play in any group that requires electonic amplification to be heard. And I have never figured out how any can really enjoy metal. It is so ugly and barbaric. Why not bring some beauty into the world?





That is biggest generalisation I have read for a while. I almost felt insulted, and I rarely get insulted...
blink.gif
Basic skill-level of playing? For the love of god... Though I have very little to add what Asmox and others have said, Metal and classical have musically much more in common than it might seem. Mostly extreme metal genres are "barbaric", (and I love them) but listen The Chariot and Before the Duel songs of this group.
http://www.myspace.com/theofficialdarkmoor
Or practically anything from Dark Moor. If this band isnt uplifting, or atleast and epic, I dont know what is. Unfortunately link lacks song Alea Jacta...

Good band for the OP to start studying of some implementations of classical-esque to metal, in this case european Power Metal.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 7:57 PM Post #22 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Metal can be incredibly simple, and it can be wildly complex from instrumental and compositional standpoints. It can be ugly, and it can be beautiful. It can be loud, and it can be tranquil. It can be dark and brooding, or uplifting and celestial. The statement quoted above is a gross, unfair, and completely uninformed generalization of a very broad genre of music.


Incredibly well said.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 7:59 PM Post #23 of 68
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Originally Posted by Cousin Patty /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Incredibly well said.



2x
No other genre that Im aware of has atleast 1000 subgenres and substyles, not even classical.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 8:09 PM Post #24 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Personally, I can't see why others do it. So-called "classical" music has a totally different aesthetic value. One favors beauty, balance, proportion, harmony. The other seems to value loudness, vulgarity, coarseness, ugliness. Classical demands high technical skills and years of training to master an instrument. Metal seems to require only the basic skills, a loud amplifier, and the ability to shout rather than sing. Can you tell I loathe metal?
So why the transition? For many musicians, they play to make a living. And let's face it, there's more money in other arenas than classical in today's American "culture". I know many players who take gigs playing country western. A trained violinist can outplay most fiddlers any day. Some do it because they find it fun. This is especially true of drummers. In music written too much before 1900, percussionists don't have a lot to do in symphony concerts, so rock/pop/jazz/metal/country provide an outlet.
Personally, I could never do it. I value my hearing too much to play in any group that requires electonic amplification to be heard. And I have never figured out how any can really enjoy metal. It is so ugly and barbaric. Why not bring some beauty into the world?



Please don't make generalized assumptions about something you obviously know nothing about. Metal is a huge genre with tens of thousands of bands worldwide and to dumb it all down to that crap you find on the radio, MTV and Hot Topic is stupid; like any genre of music, there is good and bad. If anything I've found metal to be one of the most complex, thought-provoking, and (as proven by your comments) commonly misunderstood genres in music.

Back on topic, has anyone also noticed that there are also some opera singers that make the transition into metal. Probably the most famous example is Nightwish's former singer, Tarja Turunen.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 8:17 PM Post #25 of 68
LOL - one post bashes metal (which I agree is not fair), but then 2 pages of posts bashing back. How about getting back on topic.

I actually am interested in what the OP asked about.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 8:46 PM Post #26 of 68
Metal offers more freedom and societal disjunction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skellington /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Unrelated perhaps, but I think classical is heavier than metal at times because it cannot rely on distortion, just on timing, volume and harmonics.


Metal doesn't generally rely on distortion to sound heavy, that's what Punk, Grunge, Noise and other forms of Rock music rely on to have a heavy sound.

If you played a metal riff on a classical piano it would sound heavy for one reason or another, consistency of the notes for the more 'normal' metals.

But yes, sometimes classical is 'heavier' than metal.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 9:30 PM Post #27 of 68
I cannot think of specifics at the moment; my apologies. The only thing that pops to mind is a female metal musician who was, and still is today, a virtuoso violinist. I don't recall her name.

But that's only one example. There seems to be a strong link between traditionally-classical instrumentation/music and metal. I feel as if there's a very powerful connection, as I see many metal acts glorifying a sort of dark and mystical feeling surrounding some classical instruments (particularly the cello).
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 9:51 PM Post #28 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cousin Patty /img/forum/go_quote.gif
wow...

you're an idiot.



Now that's a really intelligent reply. I just stated my opinion and my reasons, and that makes me an idiot. Why? Because I don't like the same music you like? Can you defend your comment? Probably not. And why not? Because like a lot of other sheep that can't think for themselves, rather than offering an intelligent, thoughtful response in a debate all you can do is make an ad hominem attack. Typical. Don't even bother replying, I won't be visiting this thread anymore. Go on with your self-righteous delusions that metal is the equal of Mozart or Beethoven. It's not. Really.
 
Jul 26, 2007 at 10:05 PM Post #29 of 68
For what it's worth, I think the response to mbhaub is disproportionate, and engages in some reverse-generalization. The story, for example, goes that Pierre Boulez' second piano sonata brought Yvonne Loriod, an accomplished performer of the modern repertoire, to tears.* I could be wrong, but I doubt that most popular music of the age brings its performers to tears. It would, however, be unproductive to let this devolve into a classical vs. metal flame-war.

To both answer the OP's question and give metal its due, I would say that thematically, musically, and emotionally, metal has some things in common with echt-Romantic material. For example, Wagner's Der fliegende Holländer has parts that would remind metal aficionados of various genres in turns. Thematically, both Holländer and Die Freischütz, though not exactly high Romanticism, would put people in mind of themes and ideas in some metal. There are plenty more examples of such consonance.

Once you have the theory, the instrumental chops, and some affinity for the the central Germanic repertoire, you could move from classical to metal easily. There are enough thematic and theoretical overlaps to make it an easier transition from, say, a chamber ensemble known for Franz Schubert to any of the major metal genres. Still, to get my digs in, I might also say that classical has some other things going for it that metal won't in my lifetime get, like first-rate composers and musicians devoting their lives to saying something new with "old" instruments and styles. Even Boulez scored for traditional instruments, in addition to his innovations.


*See Hopkins, G.W. The Musical Times. Vol. 112, No. 1540 (Jun., 1971): 560-561.
 
Jul 27, 2007 at 12:15 AM Post #30 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
... metal has some things in common with echt-Romantic material.


Can you actually speak German or do you just like to drop it into your posts from time to time to make you seem intelligent? Thanks for the Musical Times quote by the way.

Anyway... I'm a classical musician and though I have to admit I only know two metal bands - Metallica and Lordi, I like the former alot. Lordi suck. Probably we should all explore each others genres a little more from time to time. Maybe we'd all be surprised.

But are there any good examples of classical musicians who have gone into metal? Could be, but I don't know any names.
 

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