[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philco I'm even going to strech and say changing sources change the sound. But changing cables, really! It's like changing that little CPU in your car to get 2.5 more HP out of your engine. Can you REALLY percieve any difference?

If you think it's a "stretch" to say that changing sources changes the sound, then with all due respect, your opinions regarding whether changing cables changes the sound are of questionable value, IMO. I don't know anyone with substantial experience with decent quality gear that would say that changing sources doesn't change the sound.

Also, you acknowledge that changing amps changes the sound, but isn't it true that most amps don't measure differently in terms of characteristics that are supposed to be audible? I think your position has a number of internal inconsistencies.

 

[Svperstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS If you think it's a "stretch" to say that changing sources changes the sound, then with all due respect, your opinions regarding whether changing cables changes the sound are of questionable value, IMO.

I agree, I am pretty skeptical when it comes to cables, but I noticed an immediate improvment when I first installed my EMU over my Audigy 2 ZS. I have switched back and forth to test it and it is plain as day...........Not sure where he is coming from with that.......

 

[SnooP_WiggleS]

different sources give easily measurable and audilbe differences to things like frequency response, Intermodulation distortion, THD etc. for example anyone can easily notice an IMD of around 1.4% @ 10khz due to audigy/audigy2 resampling 44.1khz to 48khz. (http://www4.tomshardware.com/consume...d_card-15.html)


Quote:

Also, you acknowledge that changing amps changes the sound, but isn't it true that most amps don't measure differently in terms of characteristics that are supposed to be audible? I think your position has a number of internal inconsistencies.

Of course changing amps can make large changes to the sound. things such as frequency response, dynamic range all vary a lot between amps, not to mention the amp adding various types of distortion and noise.

 

[bigears]

"Rate the performance increase in your cables

"
Poll made by Vedder323 last year.
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92539


Other interesting experience by BowerR64:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92198

Here is the mic set up:

Sony Eggo D66 before and after bass mod:

"wow, graph before and after a week of burn-in"
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94169

"Playing the white noise track on that burnin CD
into the mini microphones from radio shack into the graph program.
I used the bass tracks and the low bass frequency sweeps for a week.
I took all the low sweeps and the drum tracks and filled a disk,
there was like 115 tracks of these low sweeps
and i just let the cd play for a solid week.
Then i tested them again with all the same tools and settings where i left it."

phones were low cost Coby CV320 (and Coby CV160 ?)

Now...
If a one of the many Sennheiser proud ownerswith upmarket cables [size=medium]can do a similar experience ? [/size]

 

[breez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigears Inductance (LS) +93% difference Resistance (Rdc) +26% difference Capacitance (CP) -20% difference UAU !!! Such [size=large]TINY[/size] differences, hehehehe

We can come up with impressive looking percentage figures, but the absolute values have to be considered too! I don't have enough knowledge to judge the values measured from those speaker cables and whether they can make any relevant differences in this application or not. An analogy: two audio interconnects, one with 0.1 Ohm resistance and other with 10 Ohm resistance. 1000% difference, but no appreciable (sp?) difference in line level conditions.

 

[Philco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk How about purity of cable? Most of the stock cables are made of lower grade purity copper, while the after maket cables usually have better purity. The nominal diameter also larger on the after market cables, making better signal transmission.

Purity? Yeah, I agree it exists. But does it really changes something over a small length of cable ?

The whole point here is that there is a thin line between the technical arguments and what people are hearing. What I'm saying is that it takes A LOT more technical differences than 99.9% OFC and 99.999999999% OFC to be heard by human ears.

 

[Philco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS If you think it's a "stretch" to say that changing sources changes the sound, then with all due respect, your opinions regarding whether changing cables changes the sound are of questionable value, IMO. I don't know anyone with substantial experience with decent quality gear that would say that changing sources doesn't change the sound. Also, you acknowledge that changing amps changes the sound, but isn't it true that most amps don't measure differently in terms of characteristics that are supposed to be audible? I think your position has a number of internal inconsistencies.

Of course, using a cheap 50$ source and an excellent $5000 source is going to yield some differences. What I'm saying is that the difference in sound quality of a NAD 532 CDP and a Linn CDP is BS because both units are of fairly excellent quality.

Changing amps change sound much more than sources because their effect on the signal is much more pronounced. The amp shapes the signal and amplifies it. The source only reads what is there and converts it to analog. If the source D/A converters are good, nothing else can kill sound quality. With an amp, you have transistor quality, design quality, capacitor quality.

See, a source is based on digital world. Nothing really bad can happen except bad D/A. The cables used are too short to cause any audible differences. But the amp's role is to modify the signal, therefore, it's quality is important.

Even then, if you ever read some of my posts, you'd know I just plug my headphones straight out of a good quality 100W integrated amp and I'm very happy with it, cause, except maybe for the Dynahi, I have NO respect at all for dedicated headphone amps which just rip your money with small OPAMPS that suck tone quality.

 

[Philco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnooP_WiggleS different sources give easily measurable and audilbe differences to things like frequency response, Intermodulation distortion, THD etc. for example anyone can easily notice an IMD of around 1.4% @ 10khz due to audigy/audigy2 resampling 44.1khz to 48khz. (http://www4.tomshardware.com/consume...d_card-15.html)

There is no doubt in my mind 1.4% THD is audible. What I'm saying is that between an already good source like 0.0001% THD and a zillion dollars one that has 0.0000000000001% THD there is no audible difference.

 

[Philco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigears Now... If a one of the many Sennheiser proud ownerswith upmarket cables can do a similar experience ?

Bigears, the differences in measurements shown are only due to measurement variations. Changing cables does nothing except if the cable was designed around a specific frequency compensation curve and burn-in effect is only placebo too.

 

[Duncan]

This is totally fruitless...

No matter what, there will be people on either side of the fence, and neither will see what the other is saying...

Give it up before this is another thread that turns into a flame war... thats my advice.

...and at the end of the day, any interconnect / headphone cable is better than none

 

[radrd]

Quote:

and at the end of the day, any interconnect / headphone cable is better than none

Personally, I'd take direct connection any day of the week if it were feasible...

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radrd Personally, I'd take direct connection any day of the week if it were feasible...

LOL.

I've tried it, and it works! Well, not exactly renouncing the cable, but the amp... if that counts.

 

[bigears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncan This is totally fruitless... No matter what, there will be people on either side of the fence, and neither will see what the other is saying...

There is no need for Flame Wars...
I Like to see when users say cables are just cables, i find it funny

People change over time, some even admit their mistakes...

Recentely i saw a Chaintech basher admit,
after all Chaintech is better than the Audigy2.

(that after he played with drivers and tweaks)

Pinkfloyd at December last year, made a post where he found proof
he was wrong about Senn hd600/650 Shells were not made of carbon
but of Polyamide (a plastic).

So i am asking for more graphic cable tests...
PRO or CON
of cable measurements. I pointed the ones i had at hand...

With time i could dig more in the audioholics site and post some more,
but i was waiting some ligth in this site...

Headroom could contribute with some measurements
of the Beyer DT880 and Stock and with cardas cables.

That with Duncan soon to be Review of teh Beyer DT880 stock/Cardas
that BrokenEnglish helped, providing stock Beyer DT880...

We LOW WEIGTH USERS can live with each other... (ignore lists helps)

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philco Of course, using a cheap 50$ source and an excellent $5000 source is going to yield some differences. What I'm saying is that the difference in sound quality of a NAD 532 CDP and a Linn CDP is BS because both units are of fairly excellent quality. Changing amps change sound much more than sources because their effect on the signal is much more pronounced. The amp shapes the signal and amplifies it. The source only reads what is there and converts it to analog. If the source D/A converters are good, nothing else can kill sound quality. With an amp, you have transistor quality, design quality, capacitor quality. See, a source is based on digital world. Nothing really bad can happen except bad D/A. The cables used are too short to cause any audible differences. But the amp's role is to modify the signal, therefore, it's quality is important. Even then, if you ever read some of my posts, you'd know I just plug my headphones straight out of a good quality 100W integrated amp and I'm very happy with it, cause, except maybe for the Dynahi, I have NO respect at all for dedicated headphone amps which just rip your money with small OPAMPS that suck tone quality.

There are so many fallacies in these four paragraphs it's not even worth addressing. Much of what you say is just flat wrong . . . no offense. I'll leave it at that, as the the capacity to mislead others is probably de minimus.