[radrd]

For those of you who have upgraded cables on your headphones, does anyone have a before and after frequency response plot?

Considering the huge difference that these cable upgrades seem to make, I expect that the frequency response much change fairly significantly.

I'd be very interested in seeing some response plots if there are any out there.

Doesn't matter which headphone, but the HD600/650 seem to have the best/most cable options.

I'd also be interested if anyone has checked the frequency response and found no difference, though I would find that hard to believe.

 

[bigears]

I would like to see info about it as well...

Seems funny since there are so many cable companies,
claiming improvements (not only in headphone cables).

Many users also notice differences in headphone cables,
and most experiencied (and not deaf)
agree there is difference between cables
(very small, small or medium...)

So the diference in sound exists, for me, as i heard it.
Some ears rely on theory...

(let them rest in peace)

So...Graffics of Frequence response comparing cables...?
Measurements... ?

I wish Headroom makes soon some measurements
of Beyer DT880 with stock and cardas cable...

Sounds better... All agree...
And it cant be measured ???
Something is wrong...
New measurement techniques are needed,
or better equipment is needed...

Human ears arent that good (compared to many animals...)
Good measurement equipment should be better...

I think this is a interesting topic...

 

[jefemeister]

The frequency response will not change by any meaningful amount. Any cable from something $10,000 a foot to some crudy thing you pull out of a dumpster will yield indentical results. That's not to say they won't sound different though and this is basically the crux of the ongoing cable debate.

 

[bigears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefemeister The frequency response will not change by any meaningful amount

[size=medium]
Well, isnt there [size=large]ANY[/size] graphic that can show changes[/size]
between a good and bad cable, relative to sound quality?

I am assuming shielding of a cable
has already been proved makes a difference in sound quality?

 

[Duncan]

I think bigears, that you're assuming the difference to be as large as having an EQ and boosting frequencies by 20db...

It really is negligible in db difference (else you'd be deafened by extended treble etc)... so - as jeffmeister said, odds on, unless you had an absolutely huge scale on a graph, you just wouldn't see the difference... but, you would (more than likely... better add that clause

) HEAR the difference

 

[radrd]

Quote:

you just wouldn't see the difference

And why not? There is a measurable frequency response difference between the Etymotic ER4P and the ER4S, correct? The only difference there is the impedence of the cable.

I've been led to believe (and my own experience suggests) that the difference between the ER4P and ER4S is quite small, smaller than what people claim about say the stock HD600 cable and the Equinox cable. Considering there is a measurable difference with Etys, why would there not be a measurable difference with a new cable for the HD600? Is the difference really that small? Why would anyone pay hundreds of dollars for a difference that makes even less of a difference than that between the ER4P and the ER4S, which can be achieved with a $50 cable?

Of course, I realize changing the impedence with a new cable is a measurable change, but the audible difference is not significant. Considering the HD600 upgrade cables don't even change the impedence, how can anyone begin to suggest that the audible difference is significant without some possible measurement?

 

[JaZZ]

I'd rather expect no change in frequency response above 0.01 dB, and even this number may be too optimistic. Also even a 0.2-dB change wouldn't make an audible sonic difference woth mentioning. So the question is: in which way is the signal altered? One of the great audio mysteries waiting for solution. BTW, I'm absolutely convinced that there are differences, not just placebo effects.

 

[JaZZ]

rard...

...the difference in frequency response between ER-4P and ER-4S is caused by interaction between the drivers' impedance curve and the serial resistance, not by cable properties. And yes, cable impedances are very small relative to load impedances (below 0.5 ohm with Sennheiser cables), so don't cause any FR alterations.

 

[radrd]

Quote:

the difference in frequency response between ER-4P and ER-4S is caused by interaction between the drivers' impedance curve and the serial resistance, not by cable properties.

Regardless, the change can be brought about with that simple cable addition/change. Since this change is measurable, how can people be hearing a bigger change with cable upgrades that do not have a measurable difference? I don't get it.

I was really hoping that this was the one area of cable voodoo that was in fact measurable.

 

[Philco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radrd how can people be hearing a bigger change with cable upgrades that do not have a measurable difference? I don't get it.

If you've just paid $200 for an aftermarket cable, have been told all over the place here that the sound is going to change, your brain is really "minded" (no pun intended) to actually HEAR some change. Furthermore, since acoustic memory is very very poor, I guess the time you switch cables is already too long. Viva Placebo effect!

No matter what, makers of expansive interconnects and cables are REALLY laughing their asses out when people buy their stuff. Seriously, there ain't no technical evidence of a change in sound. My opinion is that changing amps and headphones change the sound. I'm even going to strech and say changing sources change the sound. But changing cables, really! It's like changing that little CPU in your car to get 2.5 more HP out of your engine. Can you REALLY percieve any difference?

 

[Cthulhu]

Some speaker cables have been shown to have a measureable effect in the audio region.

For an intresting infomation, see http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...efaceoff01.php

However I suspect this is going to decend into flame war material soon.

 

[Philco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu Some speaker cables have been shown to have a measureable effect in the audio region. For an intresting infomation, see http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...efaceoff01.php

Thanx for the link. It shows exactly what I am saying. There ain't no difference, especially with 2,3,4,5 or 6 feet cables. They had to wind 50 feet of cable to get some interresting results. Even then, I don't think someone could actually percieve a group phase change at 20 kHz! Heck, most people hear up to 16-17kHz! Furthermore, I know of NO audiophile that would use more than 10 feet of cable each side.

Flame war or not, it's time you guys spend you hard earned money on real values (i.e. headphones themselves). Different headphones = different tones, I will never argue about it.

 

[Svperstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philco Thanx for the link. It shows exactly what I am saying. There ain't no difference, especially with 2,3,4,5 or 6 feet cables. They had to wind 50 feet of cable to get some interresting results. Even then, I don't think someone could actually percieve a group phase change at 20 kHz! Heck, most people hear up to 16-17kHz! Furthermore, I know of NO audiophile that would use more than 10 feet of cable each side. Flame war or not, it's time you guys spend you hard earned money on real values (i.e. headphones themselves). Different headphones = different tones, I will never argue about it.

This was part of my thinking when I was considering upgrading my EMU 0404 breakout cable. I was debating getting a $70 headphile cable to hook into my Gilmore Lite but the soundcard itself was only $99......seems like overkill.

Luckily I had a member here send me a new shielded cable that looks almost the same as the headphile for $18 with shipping.

My thoughts are this high quality shielded cable will sound a bit better but I am not expecting night and day.

Right now the chain is standard 9pin with 1/4" --> 1/4" to RCA adapters --> standard RCA cables --> Gilmore Lite

With the custom cable it will be:

Custom gold 9-pin breakout cable RCA ---> Gilmore Lite.

If nothing else less adapters and whatnot for the signal to travel through.

 

[purk]

Quote:

If you've just paid $200 for an aftermarket cable, have been told all over the place here that the sound is going to change, your brain is really "minded" (no pun intended) to actually HEAR some change. Furthermore, since acoustic memory is very very poor, I guess the time you switch cables is already too long. Viva Placebo effect!

How about purity of cable? Most of the stock cables are made of lower grade purity copper, while the after maket cables usually have better purity. The nominal diameter also larger on the after market cables, making better signal transmission.

 

[bigears]

Thanks for the link, Cthulhu

[size=medium]Here is the link to the part 2 of the test:[/size]
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...ewsfaceoff.php

By Gene DellaSala
Published: 15 July 2004

"After almost two years of objectively writing about speaker cables
for A/V applications and dispelling a majority of the myths surrounding them
we have come to find an audience appreciative of our efforts
with enthusiastic desire for us to measure just about every cable on the market."

And in another page:
http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/Audioquest.html

"[size=medium]In reality, any audible changes in frequency response,
distortion, phase, delay, reflection,etc are easily measurable
by Engineering Test Equipment such as a Distortion Analyzers,
Spectrum/Network Analyzers, Audio Precision, and TDR[/size].

These are fundamental and essential tools that have assisted
Design Engineers for decades in making precision measurements
with equipment which far exceeds the limits of human hearing
and even the abilities of our audio (players) equipment."


Some funny info about some Cable makers

Cant be measured, hey ? Lets start with specs provided by cable makers ...

Average percentage of differences between Cable Specs...
published... and... MEASURED:

Inductance (LS) +93% difference
Resistance (Rdc) +26% difference
Capacitance (CP) -20% difference

UAU !!! Such [size=large]TINY[/size] differences, hehehehe