[vcoheda]

it says "congratulations" in the email heading and is from a virtual dynamics address, the latter part should be easy enough to spot.

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am not talking about music, I am talking about what hi-fi audio is about, its about using science to get the best sound quality. Do you think companies just guess how they are going to build a CD player?

Yeah I understand what you're talking about, I just don't agree with it. I think passion and preference are much more a part of this hobby than science. You have a myriad of companies building gear differently than other companies, each striving for their own signature. That doesn't speak to science to me. If we took a purely scientific approach all gear would sound the same.
I can't count the times that a new scientific approach has been a big step back in sound quality. The introduction of the compact disc is a great example of that. It took years and years before CDs came anywhere close to vinyl in terms of sound quality, and IMHO that medium still hasn't gotten there.
Is there science in the design of audio gear? Most certainly! Is the soul of this hobby deeply rooted in science? Not in my opinion.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me it is about enjoying the music. The gear just helps that be more pleasurable. I notice you are building an Opus DAC and a MMM amp. Don't you know that all sources and amplifiers sound the same? There have been lots of 'scientific studies' that show this.

I've read one study from the `80s about loudspeaker amplifiers sounding the same. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me.

I didn't realize that the Opus and the M^3 are crazy-expensive overpriced voodoo parts.

I don't think they are...

Do you have a point? The only amp I currently have is some old Radioshack amp that my parents bought years ago, and it hums, loudly, with the K240's. My X-Fi pops every few seconds to the point where it is really, really annoying.

 

[gritzcolin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me it is about enjoying the music. The gear just helps that be more pleasurable. I notice you are building an Opus DAC and a MMM amp. Don't you know that all sources and amplifiers sound the same? There have been lots of 'scientific studies' that show this.

No there are studies proving diminishing returns when you start spending money. You start getting less and less for the money.

 

[Zorander]

Late into the game. Are they still giving out the freebies?

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't realize that the Opus and the M^3 are crazy-expensive overpriced voodoo parts.

Owning a DAC in and of itself is a step into audiophilia... I can't think of one non audiophile friend who knows what a DAC is. A homemade mid-high end amplifier for headphones? How many of your friends or family have one of those? How many would think that is absolutely crazy? Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only amp I currently have is some old Radioshack amp that my parents bought years ago, and it hums, loudly, with the K240's. My X-Fi pops every few seconds to the point where it is really, really annoying.

Ah, so your reasons are purely practical.

Well, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find the new system works out well for you. The Opus is a fine DAC, and the M3 a capable amplifier. I think you have a good start with the K240, one of my favorites. Maybe after you get it all setup you will decide to experiment with some different homemade cables. Try not to let placebo take you for a ride.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gritzcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif No there are studies proving diminishing returns when you start spending money. You start getting less and less for the money.

Actually there are studies that have 'proved' that all amplifiers sound the same as long as they drive the transducers they are hooked up to. Diminishing returns is common sense, I don't need a study for that.

 

[gritzcolin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually there are studies that have 'proved' that all amplifiers sound the same as long as they drive the transducers they are hooked up to. Diminishing returns is common sense, I don't need a study for that.

......then the studies are wrong. The difference between my 85 watt per channel Sansui and 120 watt per channel Yamaha are night and day. The Yamaha does the job with my Polks but the Sansui sounds so much richer in the mids and highs. There are so many factors when it comes to amplification. A $200 100 WPC Sony is not going to sound better than a 100 WPC Rotel/NAD/Carver or any well built amp. Another thing is all these tests are subjective when in most cases the test group isnt intimately familiar with the gear being used such as speakers. Tons of power matters little when its not clean.

 

[romanalexander]

I can't stand these stupid ploys to get people to look at sites. I would never do bussiness with this company.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gritzcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif the studies are wrong

Of course they are! Didn't you see the quotes around proved? Obviously the first post was sarcastic... Do you seriously think I would own the amp I do if I believed this.

I'm trying to illustrate how things 'proven' by 'scientific studies' are not always the final word. Even scientists can be motivated by placebo or have an agenda of some sort.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif Owning a DAC in and of itself is a step into audiophilia... I can't think of one non audiophile friend who knows what a DAC is. A homemade mid-high end amplifier for headphones? How many of your friends or family have one of those? How many would think that is absolutely crazy?Ah, so your reasons are purely practical. Well, I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find the new system works out well for you. The Opus is a fine DAC, and the M3 a capable amplifier. I think you have a good start with the K240, one of my favorites. Maybe after you get it all setup you will decide to experiment with some different homemade cables. Try not to let placebo take you for a ride.

Oh believe me, most of my friends thought I was crazy when I got Shure E4C's. So what?

And thanks, I hope it will be a good combo.

I also plan on eventually getting some K1000's for it too.
Quote:

Originally Posted by gritzcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif ......then the studies are wrong. The difference between my 85 watt per channel Sansui and 120 watt per channel Yamaha are night and day. The Yamaha does the job with my Polks but the Sansui sounds so much richer in the mids and highs. There are so many factors when it comes to amplification. A $200 100 WPC Sony is not going to sound better than a 100 WPC Rotel/NAD/Carver or any well built amp. Another thing is all these tests are subjective when in most cases the test group isnt intimately familiar with the gear being used such as speakers. Tons of power matters little when its not clean.

Of course a scientifically controlled, DBT is wrong, but your easily-fallible ears (all of our ears are, well, maybe that sentence structure is unclear...our brains is what is fooled, not the ears) are right. Wow, what sound logic!

And, dirty power... So you have a smelting plant right next door? Or do you have old wiring that isn't up to code?

 

[gritzcolin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course they are! Didn't you see the quotes around proved? Obviously the first post was sarcastic... Do you seriously think I would own the amp I do if I believed this. I'm trying to illustrate how things 'proven' by 'scientific studies' are not always the final word. Even scientists can be motivated by placebo or have an agenda of some sort.

Ahh ok, I thought about that but then figured you just liked tubes or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif And, dirty power... So you have a smelting plant right next door? Or do you have old wiring that isn't up to code?

No no I mean harmonic distortion ratings of amplifiers. My sansui is 0.025% THD now a days you will find yourself spending more than $1500 to get something close to that. I never knew what it meant till I bought a Harmon Kardon Stereo receiver and the sound was just bad in comparison even though it had more power per channel. Took it back a week later.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Got ya.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif And thanks, I hope it will be a good combo. I also plan on eventually getting some K1000's for it too.

It should be. I used to have a K240S and a K271S as my main two headphones. Driven from a PIMETA they were pretty nice, but scaled pretty well with higher end amps. The Beta22 should be a good match. The K1000 is a great 'headphone'... you might want to choose the gain of your Beta22 accordingly though, unless you are planning on getting/building a power amp for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif And, dirty power... So you have a smelting plant right next door? Or do you have old wiring that isn't up to code?

I've yet to really do a solid power cord comparison, but I do have experience with dirty power. I live in a Condo building, and every single switching power supply [fridges, microwaves, computers, etc] in the place throws noise back into the power lines. This isn't a big deal for an amplifier with a proper power supply, but with a digital source [DAC or CD player] a huge difference can be heard between plugging it right into the wall or using a power conditioner. The one that I use is rather simple, a UPC-200, but it makes an enormous difference. My amp, however, sounds the same when plugged straight into the wall or the UPC-200... which is interesting given how much I've read about power conditioners limiting the dynamics of amplifiers. Maybe with a power amp I would see it, but with my headphone amp it is a non issue.

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by romanalexander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't stand these stupid ploys to get people to look at sites. I would never do bussiness with this company.

Ah, I see. So you never shop at Wal-Mart then?